Mozel's Thoughts - part IV

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MOZEL's Thoughts  - part IV

Mozel I
Mozel II
Mozel III
Mozel IV

as collated from the Kitco gold forum

Date: Sat May 09 1998 17:18
mozel (@Donald) ID#153102:

If corporations were not persons by the 14th Amendment, you could just tell them to shut up by law.

But, if you have been believing my writing, you know they have worked matters around until you as a voter are an "articifial person" and the candidates are "artificial persons", so a law to shut up corporations would shut everyone up.

Date: Sat May 09 1998 17:08
mozel (@Donald) ID#153102:

You simply enact a low dollar limit and require campaigns to disclose every dollar of expense. You can be funded by one person or a hundred.

I oppose disclosure of who is giving because of the potential for revenge on them by the winning party when they have the reins of government.

Date: Sat May 09 1998 16:53
mozel (@JTF) ID#153102:

Yes, to your question. Allodial title was the basis of land ownership after the War of Independence. It was the basis spelled out in the Northwest Ordinance enacted under the Articles of Confederation. It took generations to erode it away. But it was not until this century that the rot really set in. Now, people are mentally adapted to the idea that trespass by government is normal, even desireable. They are mentally collectivist. It's mob rule. If they want your thing, the mob says, "If it will cut my tax bill, take it."

Date: Sat May 09 1998 16:40
mozel (@JTF @Donald) ID#153102:

Government took far more land in the Depression for taxes than banks did for defaults on mortgages.

Donald: the government has a virtual lock on the ballot now. Public campaign finance will give the incumbents an airtight lock on the whole process. Just like in the USSR where campaigns were publicly financed. Who do you think will decide who gets funded ? A commission ? Appointed by whom ?

Date: Sat May 09 1998 16:23
mozel (@themissinglink ) ID#153102:

Just one last thought on the property matter.

Picture yourself if you will standing before the representatives of your banded together for the good of all, collectivist Chicago government: they ask you this question: "What right have you to this property when we can make so much better use of it for the benefit of the many ?"

Go through different scenarios in which the property is your land, your gold, your car, your gun, your grandfather clock. etc.

Make youself come up with an answer. Just to yourself.

Date: Sat May 09 1998 16:07
mozel (@themissinglink) ID#153102:

"There is a balance between the needs of the many and the needs of the few."

There is no place in that statement for the rights in property of the individual. Unfortunately, my powers of explanation are wanting. Otherwise, you would see by now that ownership is not a balance; it is an either/or matter. I guess Americans will just have to learn how to think again the hard way. But, mark my words, social and vague won't cut it except in the collective.

Date: Sat May 09 1998 15:58
mozel (@Tolerant1) ID#153102:

Well, you may want to get busy following your own advice because if you have one of those registration numbers on your boat, somebody has got an equitable interest tentacle planted in it from topmast to keel.

Date: Sat May 09 1998 15:48
mozel (@themissinglink) ID#153102:

The simple proof that you do not own it is that if you do not pay the tax, they will sell it out from under you. There are other simple proofs related to the fact you have to get permission to use it.

The legal story is quite complicated. But, the short version is that in England, the King owned all the land. He made land grants. In return the tenant made payments. They were exactions. Tax is the modern word.

In America, every man is a King without subjects in the law of the Declaration of Independence. An American owned his land as absolutely as any King. But, over time the attorneys and government together decided that in America the State would take the place previously occupied by the King in common-law. And land title law commenced to depreciate to where it is now. The forms of law are still observed, but the substance is eaten away. Get out your Deed. You will read that there is a Grantor and a Grantee. The Deed language has the sound of a land grant. But, the law behind it is rotten. Titles are now at best "merchantable" unless land has been in a family for generations.

Land titles were impaired by rotten attorneys before the turn of this century, but it was not until the FDR collectivist revolution that the rot really set in. Basically, the States via the attorneys establish an equitable interest in every land transfer. ( Remember, corporations and other "articifical persons" can only speak and act by attorney. ) The government was bankrupt, so it needed collateral. The details vary from State to State, especially depending on when the State purportedly was adsmitted to the Union. In Arizona, in addition, the federal and State have kept all mineral rights to themselves. But, in no State is the land held by allodial title. With allodial title, a man could not be put off his land even by default on a mortgage or any other debt. The land and the man were Inalienable. The shared interest among banks, government, and attorneys in doing away with allodial title should be apparent.

Date: Sat May 09 1998 15:03
mozel (@themissinglink) ID#153102:

It would be against the "public interest" for an attorney to do what T1 sugests and as an officer of the court, a branch of government, his duty is first to the government, "the public interest". They will pull the ticket to practice of any lawyer that does it. Apparently, Boat People don't know Land Law.

Yopu cannot hire anyone to defend your rights. If you are fortunate, you can buy good counsel. That is what the Constitution guarantees you, "the right to assistance of counsel". Assistance. American law is not a spectator sport unless you want to pay for somebody's production of play-acting.

Date: Sat May 09 1998 14:44
mozel (@themissinglink) ID#153102:

One more thing. Think this through if you will. If you don't own your land and what is built on it, if you do not have absolute, clear allodial title to it, then in what sense is your city council condemning private property ? They are not. They are merely exercising a right they have as the equitable owner.

Date: Sat May 09 1998 14:16
mozel (@Squirrel) ID#153102:

If you live in a Condo or subdivision, the message that you don't own your land can be shrugged off. You figure you can pay the tax. Practically speaking, home inspections have just begun to be implemented in a few jurisdictions. It's a distant and theoretical threat.

But, the land and the people are one where the food comes from. There, the question, "If you don't own the land you're standing on, the land your father and grandfather stood on, in just what sense of the words is it our country" goes to the heart of the question of legitimacy of government.

Date: Sat May 09 1998 13:55
mozel (@vaporware @voting with your feet) ID#153102:

Someone told me of a purportedly documentary film they saw about the development of the Bradley Fighting Vehicle. To make a long story short, billions were poured into a fatally flawed machine design which was concealed by representations and assurances from vain and venal authority. Only the persistence of one man in pushing for a live fire test prevented a catastrophe for the troops that would ride to battle in this thing. The hero saved the System, but was rewarded for his integrity by being ejected by it.

This story is yet another instance of a pattern of hierarchical bureaucracies ejecting the independent honest thinker no matter how practical his suggestions may be. The same thing happened to Gen Billie Mitchell when he insisted on testing aerial bombing on real ships. In a corporation in which projects are not a matter of life and death and no real public trust and duty is involved, the incentive to shut up, consume, and die as 6Pak puts it, is even stronger. Or, looked at from the other direction, the disincentive to personal integrity is even greater. In the case of government, the resources at hand may be so vast that Propaganda can dominate Fundamentals indefinitely. In such a setting, the important thing is that your Propaganda prevail. And nothing is more key to that than the maintenance of Image. Nothing is more fatal to Image than a failed test. So, the hazard of an objective test is avoided unless compelled by events or by higher authority.

The equally important point about this story is that it is of a type that has achieved urban legend status. It teaches that the person of integrity is merely a fool who saves the ungrateful System at the expense of his own well-being. Whether it is true to life or not, it is widely accepted as being true.

This is the context in which I assess the probability that government and corporations will have anything ready for Y2K except Vaporware.

It takes longer to vote with your feet than you think it will.

Date: Sat May 09 1998 10:58
mozel (@Hams) ID#153102:

Recommendations for the best value in short wave transceivers would be appreciated.

Date: Sat May 09 1998 10:36
mozel (@Donald) ID#153102:

The "Cold War" has concluded.

The goal of those who struggle to dominate the territory of the imagination, the imagined territory of a future world, is mind control. All of the apparatus of mind control supports paper. First the physical barriers demarking the official battle line of the war came down. Do you remember how unbelieving people were that The Wall had actually been breached ? It will be just so with the walls in the mind.

Everyone will go through the same psychological steps, seeking safety for the property in which they have stored life until they arrive at gold. Has not each goldbug already made the mental and emotional journey ?

The Japanese depositor is on the first step of the journey.

Wars always end in depressions. You cannot waste and waste without a cost, without an eventual accounting.

Date: Sat May 09 1998 02:57
mozel (@Securing The Gold) ID#153102:

From crooked government.

It is quite difficult for crooked government to use honest law against people that know some law.

For example, it was recently posted that a Tax Court held that golden eagles were "property" and not "money". Of course, a Tax Court is not a judicial court. It is an Executive Tribunal, more properly described as a Confiscation Court. It is the very thing the Seventh Amendment was put in the Constitution to prevent. But, the Tax Court's ruling was in response to a government petition. The government is now on record stating that golden eagles are "property" and not "money". This is delicious.

A chattel property can be pledged to a Trust, for example. This creates a lien, a common law lien. A common-law lien is not assignable. The interest of a common-law lien-holder is not subject to attachment, nor can it be taken on execution. You and the Trustee can ignore any blah blah from the federal communists and if they do find and take the gold, the Trustee has all recovery actions ( replevin, trespass, and trover ) at common-law available for recovery OF THE THING.

Date: Sat May 09 1998 00:25
mozel (@RJ) ID#153102:

There are "visions" to which I am opposed, The Animal Farm by any name being one of them. In that "vision", except for trading in and out of paper against the other inhabitants of The Rat Farm, there is no point to Gold.

Just think of me as an itsy bitsy version of Paul Revere, knocking on doors here to say, "The Reds are coming."

Date: Fri May 08 1998 23:55
mozel (@RJ) ID#153102:

Each of us comprehends, brings within our mind, variously, depending on our life experience, including study. When people see matters differently, there is no mutual overlap of their separate comprehensions. But, by conversation we can increase our separate comprehensions.


I am reflecting on those words which I can freely choose to abide by and those which I cannot, as JTF suggested.

Date: Fri May 08 1998 23:23
mozel (@JTF @aurophile) ID#153102:

JTF I can only conclude that you do not comprehend that a word has the weight of a number and even more weight when it is a word of law. There is no my America in my conception. The founders of this nation originated America.

@aurophile I foretell you will one day be as those described by SDRer, begging them.

Date: Fri May 08 1998 22:49
mozel (@JTF) ID#153102:

Vague and social won't cut it.

They are not vague and social about their exactions on you.

Talking about our "demoncratic" this and that won't cut it.

You either stand for or against collectivist government.

Talking about fedflows and other Keynesian crap won't cut it.

You are either for the power of the purse, gold, in the hands of the people or you are aginst it.

Even a stout people can be brought low by a government that pursues a war policy against them to force them into dependence.

Date: Fri May 08 1998 22:34
mozel (@aurophile) ID#153102:

Nobody is going to get or stay ahead of the socialist entropy curve.

The payment of interest on Notes for Nothing is to give you the comfort of the illusion that you can get ahead.

But your liabilities to the "collective" are increasing at a much faster rate than you are getting ahead.

If we don't own the land we stand on, in what sense is it our country ?

Date: Fri May 08 1998 22:33
mozel (@aurophile) ID#153102:

Nobody is going to get or stay ahead of the socialist entropy curve.

The payment of interest on Notes for Nothing is to give you the comfort of the illusion that you can get ahead.

But your liabilities to the "collective" are increasing at a much faster rate than you are getting ahead.

If we don't own the land we stand on, in what sense is it our country ?

Date: Fri May 08 1998 22:14
mozel (@JTF) ID#153102:

I didn't misunderstand anything.

All collectives are the same at bottom.

The names are different; the titles of the officials are different; they have different badge designs; they have different models of firearms; these and all other differences are surface distinctions.

Date: Fri May 08 1998 22:08
mozel (@JTF) ID#153102:

Sorry, I hold to the Declaration of Independence which states plainly that government derives its just power from the consent of the governed to secure the rights of individuals to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness ( rights to property and the enjoyment of it ) . Now, if a majority or a commission or any other body of men can tax my rights by a vote, they are doing it under color of law contrary to the first and founding Statute of this nation, the Declaration of Independence.

We had a Democratic Socialist Revolution in this country under FDR.

Date: Fri May 08 1998 21:46
mozel (@JTF) ID#153102:

If you want to live in a collective, go to a collectivist country where they have collective responsibility. I am not collectivized.

The guarantee we have is no tax on our rights to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness ( we negotiate from transaction to transaction in our pursuit of happiness ) .

Date: Fri May 08 1998 21:08
mozel (@JTF) ID#153102:

I see you are starting to wake up to the fact debt is not benign. It is not theoretical. It is a real burden, a life sapping burden.

Now, go back and read the Declaration of Indpendence and when you get to the word "in a lien able", take note that a tax is a LIEN.

Have they not put a LIEN on your liberties ? Have they not put a LIEN on your pursuit of happiness ?

And what have they left you with title to ? Not land. Not a vehicle. Not your bank deposit. How about stock and bond certificates ?

Date: Fri May 08 1998 20:45
mozel (@Donald) ID#153102:

I agree with your fedflow analysis. The Fed intends to draw money out of the stock market by forcing the banks to attract deposits with high interest bearing CD's and by forcing the banks to divest themselves of stock portfolios. Combination of making CD's more competitive with market gains and reducing market gains by taking the bank money out of the stock market's liquidity pool.

Date: Fri May 08 1998 04:02
mozel (@Nightwriter) ID#153102:

Thanks for the warm feedback.

Without it, one never knows for sure.

Electrical storm brewing here. So, hate to leave so sonn, but I think I must. G'night.

Date: Fri May 08 1998 03:54
mozel (@aurator) ID#153102:

Texas has got uses I couldn't ever imagine. And thinking up new ones every day.

Horses and angels on horseback are very welcome there in all seasons.

Date: Fri May 08 1998 03:47
mozel (@JohnD) ID#153102:

Glad you enjoyed the piece on Naeesons.

I think it was DA that posted about options expiration and movement of POG. But, it's hard to hold facts and TA and waves in the head all at the same time. For me, anyway.

I wonder if Central African Mines divulged their NAV ?

Date: Fri May 08 1998 03:38
mozel (@aurator) ID#153102:

I found Reich's lab notes somewhere on this web. Fascinating.

If you ever want an immigration sponsor, let me know. There's room for you in Texas, I daresay.

Date: Fri May 08 1998 03:16
mozel (@Alberich) ID#153102:

"I would enjoy very much to continue our philosophical discussion, but I'm afraid it would exceed the limits of what this site is meant to be."

***Nothing is happening at the moment here, so ...

"- You seem to be precisely clear and radically critical of the legal situation in America, where it has been drifted, and from where it came from. The loss of "true" legality.

- At the same time, you have the greatest believe in the "true" law, of all persons whom I have ever met.

I have read about the "Freemen" and thought: "What a tragedy!". Why did they expose themselves to a system which was obviously already rotten?

By the way: I never really was sure if Socrates did the right thing when he emptied the cup of poison.

But my own mistrust of the present legal situation in America is so profoundly that I wouldn't even expose myself. And I deeply regret that these wonderful people became victims of p**gs.

But my major concern is this: Americans with your believe might spread affirmative propaganda about an "idea of America" which in reality has ceased to exist long agon: and you told me exactly when and why.

I think, in the long run, I will tend to trust the effective positive political situation more than the idea of a law ( i.e., common law or a law, which is theoretically based on the "judaeo-christian believe" that all men are equally born in the image of god ) . These ideas are at the end irrelevant. What really counts are the people and their will to defend their rights or to fight for their rights. But as things are, people havn't even understood that their "republic" and their "democracy" is history since quite a while. And what also counts are the intentions and the strategies of those who form the "oligarchy"."

Alberich, you have misunderstood me and America, I think. I gave you the highlights of the events that have occurred that have led to today's legal environment in America. I don't know about this belief in the "true" law statement. All the unrepealed law that was on this continent from Independence, still is. The decision in Clinton v Jones turned in large part on the Petition of Right of 1681 and other guarantees from the English Constitution.

The idea of America is in the Declaration of Independence. That idea has not ceased to exist by a long shot. I don't understand this affirmative propaganda statement of yours either. The English Constitution at the time of separation from England, the common-law, the Constitutions and other founding documents and principles of this country are not propaganda. They are our birthright. Trust me on this: they may not be part of political campaigns, but for hire lawyers know and judges know and when they know you know and you get past the procedural mysteries, they know and apply the law. Not that they are giving anything; they aren't. And, if they think you will give up or can't or won't appeal, they will give even less. Ignorance just gets no respect at all in a courtroom in America.

The Freeman were sticking a sharp stick in the belly of this government. They accomplished a very great deal with no resources except hard work. The administration of the law is not perfect anywhere. American courts are not corrupt generally in any venal sense of the word. But, if you wager at law with powerful financial or government interests, do not be naive. The courts are not an alternative for the political process, but a few determined people with some knowledge of law have an unequalled resource to result ratio. Besides, we are at a stage in this country where political action without legal knowledge is pretty much a waste of time.

At the moment I have the impression you are on some kind of an intellectual Michelin tour of these matters. I hope you will study the references you asked for. Until you do, you should be wary of your own judgement on these topics.

Date: Fri May 08 1998 00:44
mozel (@PH in LA) ID#153102:

I hope in three years I am the object of ridicule for being a Nervous Nellie Chicken Little in advance of Y2K.

But, given the known propensity for deceit and disinformation in the governing circles, prudence instructs me to prepare.

My counsel is that no man is an island; that the company of the seriously God fearing is more reliable and more enduring in bad circumstances.

Date: Thu May 07 1998 22:56
mozel (@George) ID#153102:

Much obliged for the wheat information.

Date: Thu May 07 1998 22:46
mozel (@RJ) ID#153102:

Don't let it go to your head. It won't bother me if the cattle prod-meds -paper people don't survive the CRISIS. smiley thing

Date: Thu May 07 1998 22:29
mozel (@vronsky @RJ) ID#153102:

Vronsky You're the last guy I'd want to offend, because, frankly, if it wasn't for you, I wouldn't have ever been here.

RJ The optimistic side of what you say is a great testimony to the human spirit. I agree with it in the long view. The best supporting evidence is how people today carry on constructing progressively despite the crushing burden of debt and oppressive regulation ( and government protected quacks ) .

Date: Thu May 07 1998 22:00
mozel (@6Pak @JTF) ID#153102:

Drugs like broadcasting were taken out of the jurisdiction of the common-law by Treaty.

I have in my possession a page from a Sears Roebuck Catalog from around 1903 on which is listed opium available for ordering and delivery via the US postal service.

You can heckle the foundations in law which allow you to express yourself on this forum or you can learn. Heckling is easier than learning just as tearing up the garden is easier than planting and tending it.

JTF The story of W Reich in the US shows how low they can go.

Date: Thu May 07 1998 21:27
mozel (@vronsky, earl, SDRer and other kind commentators) ID#153102:

vronsky, churchillian ? whoa ! Even I am not so vain as to credit such a mismatch between my ambition and my ability.

Earl, SDRer, et. al., your appreciation is a valued reward.

Date: Thu May 07 1998 19:29
mozel (@HighRise) ID#153102:

A man of music like yourself has the blessing of more than one world to visit. The chord, the tone, by sound revealing to those with ears to hear another stream of true and permanent knowledge.

Enjoy your company here.

Date: Thu May 07 1998 19:18
mozel (@LGB ) ID#153102:

LGB, As far as I am concerned, people of your type are a menace to society. You can take "the healthcare system" and stick it where the sun don't shine.

Date: Thu May 07 1998 19:00
mozel (@Steve_In_To @George) ID#153102:

Steve Please post any corrections which you can as I want to be informed of them.

George Please post sources for wheat and grinder and some recipes as I am sure there are many interested.

Date: Thu May 07 1998 17:53
mozel (@A Peculiar World & The Goldbug) ID#153102:

Somebody posted there is no such thing as a socialist profit. That's true and astute. What the Corporate Socialists accumulate is credits, trade credits.

One fourth of the world's stored, intrinsic value wealth ( gold ) is concentrated in the hands of Central Bankers. This situation is an aspect of the enormous concentration of power in government in this century. War is the health of the State. Government today has more control over human life than at any time in history. The thirst of human beings in power for more power is insatiable. Yet, most people are unaware of the power equations that rule their lives. I consider myself only partially aware. I have noticed that particularly among the young, you will hear them validate someone's views by saying, "I saw that on TV or I saw that in a film." There is something peculiar that gives such authority to what is broadcast. It is as if the very fact of broadcast is self-authenticating. It would be an interesting experiment to broadcast an event purporting to occur in Times Square and observe how many people in Times Square watched the event and how many watched the big screen image of the event. And to observe how many there would notice a blatant disparity between the event and the purported broadcast.

In other words, I think what is broadcast to them has more reality to most people than the evidence of their own senses and thoughts. So, it is possible to have a world in which Propaganda dominates Fundamentals. And that is the developed world as we have it. Some call it the System.

The universities, government, media, and the large corporations are all encompassed within it.

The Goldbug is a fundamentalist. The goldbug's only common belief is in the eventual triumph of fundamentals of his own individually reasoned thought or experience. Gold is a common point of convergence of many fundamentals. Gold is the unchanging substance in a world of flux. It is the nexus between this tangible ever-changing world of matter and energy and the intangible world of true and permanent knowledge. Time and again in this century, the Fundamentals and the goldbug have been defeated by Propaganda, by the System. The system has made them look like fools, especially in the marketplace. As the LGB's of the world like to remind us, those believing in the system have been much more rewarded than those doubting it. The stock market bubble reperesents more than investor sentiment, I think. It represents a pinnacle of success for the system. A pinnacle of success for the authorised opinion. And if you do not now know the public "price" of gold is as artificial as the "official price" of gold, you are simply ignorant of events or wilfully disbelieving of the evidence.

There is a term in the common-law for representations which, even if not intended to deceive, nevertheless had a necessary tendency to deceive: it was called "constructive fraud." "By constructive fraud is meant such a contract or act, which, though not originating in any actual evil design or contrivance to perpetrate a positive fraud or injury upon other persons, yet, by its tendency to deceive or mislead. them, or to violate private or public confidence, or to impair or injure the public interests, is deemed equally reprehensible with positive fraud, and, therefore, is prohibited by law, as within the same reason and mischief as contracts and acts done malo animo."

Is propaganda anything other than constructive fraud ? I think not.

It's simply the case that broadcasting, having been removed from the jurisdiction of the common-law by Treaty, you cannot bring the perpetrators to justice.

The more you look, the more you will find dishonesty has been legalized. Consider today's "markets" in the light of the following:

"FORESTALLING, crim. law. Every practice or device, by act, conspiracy, words, or news, to enhance the price of victuals or other provisions. 3 Inst. 196; Bac. Ab. h.t.; 1 Russ. Cr. 169; 4 Bl. Com. 158.

2. All endeavors whatever to enhance the common price of any merchandise, and all kinds of practices which have that tendency, whether by spreading false rumors, or buying things in a market before the accustomed hour, are offences at common law, and come under the notion of forestalling, which includes all kind of offences of this nature. Hawk. P. C. b. 1 c. 8 0, s. 1. Vide 13 Vin. Ab. 430; Dane's Ab. Index, h.t.; 4 Com. Dig. 391 1 East, Rep. 132."

Are not all of the CB's and the USG guilty of forestalling in the foreign exchange markets to enhance the $US ?

The more you learn, the more you see that people in government are able to do things legally by statute that are criminal under the common-law. Government is in our time indeed the enemy of the honest man. I don't think in America the people ever delegated to their representatives a power to protect the criminal, but that is what legislatures have been doing for some time now. When you get to where I am in awareness, it is pretty darned obvious why these people are terrorized by religious people, Christian and Islamic, and why they have announced more than once in my lifetime that God is Dead, why they promote the religion of evolutionism, and disallow the public teaching of moral knowledge. They are all unconvicted felons according to Judeo-Christian Law. Truly, if you can convince people that gold is not money, you have notched one cog further long in convincing them that there is no fundamental right and wrong. In everything, if you do not know what you know, you will be spun to where they want you to go. But, even the disbelievers, if they are honest, must acknowledge the ultimate source of whatever moral knowledge they lay claim to. It is like all true and permanent knowledge something that has been revealed, something that has been uncovered to sight. It has been tried many times by torture unto death and not found wanting. That's strong experimental evidence when you think about it.

So, condense yourself to what you treasure most and find the friends of it. Because the Year 2000 approaches and the System is not ready for it.

Date: Thu May 07 1998 13:10
mozel (@Mr Censor) ID#153102:

You are not the only one who would suppress free speech on medical and scientific research. Charles Pixley is paying the price of time in a federal prison for speech on this treatment. His family can ill afford his absence, financially or otherwise.

Yes, 300% gain in a few days. The incentive to suppress truth that does not contribute to further grants for a research career or a new pharmaceutical money maker is very strong. There is a Cancer Industry whose financial interests use government for protection. If you want the greater truth about the War on Cancer than just your own family experience, I can direct you to the reports.

Date: Thu May 07 1998 12:34
mozel ( @Cancer ) ID#153102:

You are learning about this on a bulletin board because all true knowledge which does not contribute to Corporate Socialist profit is at thhis time in history perpetuated only by underground channels.

Thanks for sharing Mozel. Knowledge is power, knowledge is built on information, information evolves from data. Thanks.

Date: Thu May 07 1998 12:34
mozel (@Cancer) ID#153102:

You are learning about this on a bulletin board because all true knowledge which does not contribute to Corporate Socialist profit is at thhis time in history perpetuated only by underground channels.

by: Stephanie Hiller c
which appeared in THE YOGA JOURNAL, September/October 1993

Thirty-nine-year-old Jacques Viens had gone home to die.

Seven-eighths of his stomach had been removed, and the cancer had already spread to the lymph. Since there seemed to be no hope of recovery, his doctor offered him a new, experimental treatment called 714X. He tried it. Four months later he was healthy enough to go hunting, and not long after that he resumed his job.

Fifty-one-year-old Marcel Caron suffered from intestinal cancer, but he refused to have his intestine removed. His wife's breast cancer had been successfully treated with the same experimental medicine Viens had used; Caron wanted to try it too. Sixty-five days after he started treatment, no cancer was to be found in Caron's body. Eight years later, he was still healthy.

These are just two among hundreds of case histories of patients who recovered using a little-known approach to cancer and other degenerative diseases that proponents claim could revolutionize medical practice. The first person to use it--more than 20 years ago--is still alive. What would happen if an effective treatment for cancer were finally found--a non-toxic, natural, and inexpensive treatment that could be self-administered at home with a success rate of 75 percent?

It sounds like a dream come true, a miracle. We would all breathe a little easier, that's for certain. Many lives would be saved. And a multi-billion-dollar enterprise--the pharmaceutical-medical-insurance complex, the most profitable industry in America today--would be forever transformed. Dozens of giant pharmaceutical and medical supply companies would be forced out of business. The "cancer industry" would be no more.

Little wonder, then that we have heard so little about a 69-year-old French microbiologist who says he's discovered such a treatment. His name is Gaston Naessens, and he calls his immune-system therapy 714X.

When Naessens' unorthodox treatment methods began yielding dramatic successes in his native France, French medical authorities closed his lab, confiscated his equipment, and heavily fined him for practicing medicine without a license.

Naessens went to Canada, where, with the help of the prestigious MacDonald Foundation ( which for years has funded cancer research ) , he set up a small laboratory outside Montreal.

There he and his wife, Francoise, continued their careful research until 1989, when Naessens was again brought to trial by the medical authorities, accused of contributing to the death of a woman who did not recover after using his treatment.

After a long trial, in which numerous testimonies were offered by patients and physicians using his approach, he was finally acquitted. ( The full story of the trial is told in Christopher Bird's book The Persecution and Trial of Gaston Naessens. ) Now, a handful of doctors are struggling to make Naessens' controversial treatments readily available in the United States.

Born in northern France in 1924, the young Naessens was a precocious inventor who built a small, functioning automobile-type vehicle when he was only five, followed by a homemade motorcycle. By the age of 12 he had constructed a plane that could fly. ( His mother burned it to prevent him from flying it, however. )

When his university studies of physics, chemistry, and biology were interrupted by World War II, Naessens earned an unofficial diploma from the Union Scientifique Francaise in Lilles, where most of his university professors had fled to escape the Nazi invasion. ( He never bothered to pursue its formal equivalent after De Gaulle restructured France, a decision that would later lead to accusations that he lacked a college degree. ) With his mother's support, Naessens continued his studies on his own. While pursuing the study of hematology, he observed "something moving in the blood," but the particle was too small to be identified by the optical methods he had at his disposal. Fascinated, Naessens enlisted the help of optical specialists in Germany in developing a stronger microscope.

Called the somatoscope, the microscope itself was a significant scientific achievement. Using a unique combination of incandescent and ultraviolet rays, it allowed him to look at living blood ( without first fixing and staining it, which is the usual method ) at a magnification of 30,000 times with a resolution of 150 angstroms--a capacity that has not been exceeded to date.

Using this unique method of microscopy, Naessens was able to study what he had glimpsed previously but could not identify: motile microorganisms in the blood plasma. Naessens observed a number of different forms of these microorganisms but came to the conclusion that they were all stages of the development of one subcellular entity he named the "somatid."

Naessens found these somatids everywhere--in the sap of plants, in the blood of animals, even in apparently lifeless organic matter like ashes. Culturing them and observing the somatid cycle, he discovered that somatids are resistant to acids and bases as well as heat and that they cannot be cut with a diamond.

For example, they withstood 2 megarads of radiation capable of killing any living thing, as well as carbonization temperatures of more than 200° C. He concluded that they are indestructible. Recently, a faculty member of the University of California at Davis, showed me the somatids in my own blood on a TB screen, using Naessens' "condenser," an attachment he developed that converts a regular microscope into one resembling his invention.

Lots of bright little bodies were busily circulating around the red blood cells, platelet, and lymphocytes in my blood, their motion not unlike that of swarming bees. Cell division cannot take place without these busy, glowing bodies, Naessens postulates, because in the course of its cycle the somatid releases the growth hormone trephone, which enables cells to divide and multiply.

Naessens goes even further--he believes the electrically charged, luminous somatid is the original spark of life, the pinpoint where energy condenses into matter. According to Naessens, the somatid represents the manifestation of cosmic energy in a tiny, moving dot of physicality. The pleomorphic cycle of this tiny entity is what explains how degenerative diseases occur, Naessens says.

Such diseases, which include not only cancer and AIDS but rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, multiple sclerosis, and any viral or degenerative disease such as chronic fatigue, are the least understood of all the illnesses of modern times. While doctors' prescriptions may ease the pain, modern medicine has been unable to truly cure any of them.

In these diseases, the immune system apparently malfunctions. It either weakens and becomes unable to resist opportunistic disease, as in cancer or AIDS, or it doubles its vigilance, attacking the body itself and producing diseases like rheumatoid arthritis. Holistic medicine urges that we approach these diseases, which are frequently attributed to environmental toxicity, by rejuvenating the body's defenses. Holistic treatments, like the traditional methods from which they evolved, consist of appropriate diet, exercise, and support plant medicines to replenish our depleted reserves and restore strength.

Naessens' theories align with the tenets of holistic practice. But unlike most holistic healers, Naessens is able to provide scientific documentation and evidence of what traditional and Naturopathic approaches have suggested all along--that disease represents imbalance in the ecology of the whole organism.

In healthy individuals, says Naessens, the somatid moves through a three stage cycle that produces the right amount of the growth hormone trephone to keep cells reproducing at the appropriate rate. ( This growth hormone was first identified by Nobel laureate Alexis Carrel, who did not, however, link it to a subcellular entity in the blood. ) When the body is stressed or weak, however, the somatid shifts into a longer macrocycle that features 13 additional stages, including forms that resemble bacteria, viruses, and yeast cells.

Other scientists have seen some of these forms in the blood of cancer patients and have posited a bacterial and, later, a viral cause of cancer. However, according to these theories ( which have not been confirmed by scientific evidence ) , the disease carrier has always been thought to enter the body from somewhere outside, as germs do.

In Naessens' view, these microbial forms are simple phases of the somatid in its extended cycle. In this amplified cycle, the somatid produces excessive quantities of growth hormone, creating the abnormally rapid cell growth we call cancer. Naessens is not the first scientist to describe polymorphic entities in the blood.

In the early 1800s, Antoine Bechamp, like Guenther Enderlein and many other pioneers, using far more primitive microscopes than Naessens', perceived microzymas, or "little bodies," which were thought to be fundamental elements of cells and whole living organisms. When the organism is disturbed by a serious event, Bechamp theorized, the symbiotic relationship between the microzymas and the body becomes imbalanced, leading to disease. In this view, illness originates within the body.

The scientific establishment rejected Bechamp's work in favor of that of Pasteur, who was convinced that disease is caused by bacteria entering the body from without. Pasteur's work, which had wide application to a host of infectious diseases, led to the important discovery of immunization.

Bechamp's theory was rejected, and germ theory became a sacred tenet in medicine, despite the fact that a number of diseases do not appear to conform to that pattern. On his deathbed, Pasteur was said to disavow his own theories and exclaim, "He is right. The terrain is all. The microbe is nothing!" ( He was referring to French physiologist Claude Bernard, who had disputed Pasteur on the basis that the microbe meant much less than the condition of the whole. )

In Naessens' theory, the microcycle of the somatid is held at three stages by blood inhibitors, which consist of certain digestive enzymes, hormones, and minerals. Poor diet and stress apparently reduce the number of blood inhibitors, allowing the somatid to commence its extended 13-phase macrocycle. The presence of these extra somatid forms signifies the beginning of degenerative disease before it has manifested itself in the body.

Hence the somatid theory has a valuable diagnostic application, which, in combination with other factors, makes it possible to diagnose and even treat the disease before it takes hold. The difference between healthy cells and cancer cells is their rate of growth. The somatid macrocycle generates a tremendous increase in the number of somatids, releasing more and more growth hormone into the body and stimulating the rapid multiplication of cells we call cancer.

The increasing mass of disorganized cells secrete what Naessens has called the "co-cancerogenic factor," a substance that allows the cancer to withdraw essential nitrogen derivatives from the patient's cells and also begins to paralyze the immune system, radically undermining the patient's ability to combat the disease. The cancer does not take long to metastasize ( spread to new locations ) throughout the body. Since the usual orthodox methods of treating cancer involve cutting out, burning, or poisoning the cancerous tumors, cancer's potential to metastasize has kept everyone stumped.

A systemic treatment for the disease would enable the body to again perform its normal function of removing cancer cells, which in healthy bodies takes place almost daily. According to proponents of the approach, Naessens' 714X ( the name is alpha numerological reference to the letters in his own name ) is such a treatment. It is distributed rapidly throughout the body by the unique method of intralymphatic injection. Doctors have said such injections are physiologically impossible, due to the structure of the lymphatic system--yet thousands of people have now used the treatment with encouraging results.

714X is an aqueous solution ( trimethylbicyclonitr aminoheptane co ) consisting of camphor, mineral salts, and nitrogen salts, which is injected once a day for a 21-day cycle. The treatment is then repeated until the progress of the disease is reversed and finally stopped.

The salts help to liquefy, cleanse and clear the lymph of toxins accumulated during the disease, thereby reviving the body's defenses, which go back to work to fight the cancer. The nitrogen actually feeds the cancer cells so they do not drain the body's nitrogen. The camphor carries the nitrogen to the cells and impedes the formation of the "co-cancerogenic factor," again stimulating the body's own ability to fight the disease.

( Camphor is widely used by village people throughout India to treat a wide variety of illnesses, from bronchitis to diarrhea. According to Jahnavi Morton, an ayurvedic practitioner who studies under Vasant Lad in New Mexico, camphor is used for "opening the flow of prana, bringing clarity to the mind." ) Unlike allopathic medicine's "magic bullet" approach to illness, the treatment does not do anything directly to the malfunctioning somatid, nor does it attack the symptoms of the disease.

All it does is stimulate the body's ability to regain its balance and defeat the cancer on its own. A healthier organism produces more blood inhibitors, slowing down the somatid cycle. As a result, the amount of growth hormone (responsible for cell division ) produced by the somatids begins to decline, so cancer cells do not multiply as quickly. Meanwhile, the body's ability to destroy the existing cancer cells increases. The cancer does not spread. The tumor begins to regress. The body regains its natural balance. The progress of the disease is reversed until it disappears.

Among the growing number of physicians who are recognizing the efficacy of 714X is Dietmar Schildwaechter, M.D., Ph.D., former faculty member of the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine who serves as an International Medical Consultant in Washington, D.C. and directs a cancer rehabilitation center in his native Germany.

He came across Naessens' treatment in 1990 through one of his own patients, who showed marked improvement when, unbeknownst to him, she began taking it. When he found out what she was taking, he began looking into the unconventional treatment himself. He "realized that Naessens had discovered and identified what others had only partially seen."

"Gaston Naessens' discoveries," Schildwaechter writes, "represent a brand new dimension in medicine. His recognition of the somatids as the basic form of life and his furnishing a microscopic means to monitor their cycle are nothing short of revolutionary. His method, offering an instant and highly refined way of assessing every human being's state of health and their response to therapy, is second to none."

Schildwaechter is now the Chief Investigator of the Institutional Review Board ( IRB ) that is documenting the successes of 714X with the goal of obtaining FDA approval for its use in the United States as an experimental treatment. Naessens' treatment continues to be available by doctor's prescription, so long as the patient is willing to become informed and sign a consent form for the administration of an unapproved drug.

How are we to know that this is not just another crackpot cure?" Most alternative treatments lack the validation on which Americans have come to rely, the stamp of approval by the American Medical Association, the National Cancer Institute, and the FDA. The august bodies of medical research have demonstrated a reluctance to investigate therapies that have not emerged from their own labs.

Of the 63 treatments on the "list of unapproved methods" published by the American Cancer Society, over 40 percent have never even been investigated by the medical establishment, writes Ralph Moss, author of The Cancer Industry. "Merely including a scientist's name on the list of unproven methods has the effect of damning that researcher's work and putting a tag of quackery on his efforts."

Gaston Naessens ( G N 24, a completely different compound, ) is number 63 on that list.

The 1994 Canadian Investigational and Emergency Drug List officially includes 714X for Anti-Cancer and Immune Related Disease Therapy. ( Drug Information Center, Ontario College of Pharmacists, Toronto Ontario. )

For more informaiton or to pursue this therapy you may contact:
WRITERS and Research, Inc.
4810 Saint Paul Boulevard
Rochester, NY 14617
716 544 2288

Date: Wed May 06 1998 16:50
mozel (@NJ) ID#153102:

Future Headline: Goldman buys Merrill ( left holding a bag of do do today ) ?

Date: Wed May 06 1998 16:40
mozel (@6Pak @SDRer) ID#153102:

What the Prince Corporations want immunity from: ( Did I ever tell ya about the suit in Texas against John D Rockefeller ( 1898 ) ; ran to federal papa for protection ) . The Multi-Lateral Treaty Robnoel has warned about is to immunize the Prince Corporations internationally like the 14th Amendment immunized them here in the States. ( No Magna Charata for the common man here, SDRer. )


Toby Harshaw
Letters Editor
New York, NY

Subject: Letter to the editor Re. "Argentina to Seek Extradition of 2 Executives from U.S." ( 5/5/98 )

Dear Sir,
Sometimes, silence speaks louder than words. The New York Times' silence in identifying the four IBM executives whose extradition the Argentine judge is seeking is only superseded by your editors' efforts to hide their corporate identity. There was no mention of IBM in your headline, "Argentina to Seek Extradition of 2 Executives from U.S." No wonder that this story, embarrassing the bluest of the Wall Street "blue chips," was relegated to the inside pages ( page A8 ) of your May 5 edition.

Why? Because IBM's chairman serves on the New York Times board of directors?

Or is it because of the Big Blue's vast advertising budget?

When Truth in Media questioned today your Buenos Aires reporter, Clifford Krauss, who filed the story, about why he failed to disclose the identities of the four IBM executives - given that the Argentine judge is presiding over a public court, and that IBM is a public company - your reporter sheepishly replied that he "did not want to besmirch their ( IBM ) names in the press."

Wow! Whatever happened to the New York Times motto - "All the news that's fit to print?"

Lest your latest abuse of our ( American ) freedom of the press is not crystally clear, your reporter ( or editor? ) seems to be preempting an Argentine federal judge's opinion who had publicly stated ( according to your story ) , that he would "ask Interpol to capture them ( these unnamed, 'untouchable' IBM executives ) with or without the assistance of the U.S. government."

Now, why for God's sake would you do a fool thing like that in this "land of the free and of the brave?" Does the New York Times no longer adhere to its motto: "All the news that's fit to print?" And if not, why not take it off your masthead? It's an insult to your readers' intelligence, anyway.

And while you're at it, why not rename your paper the "New York Pravda?"
"Red" or "Big Blue" Pravda? Who cares. You're not fooling anyone who has read the Soviet Pravda, anyway. It's the same old censorship; the same old brainwashing... Only done in English rather than in Russian.

Bob Djurdjevic

Date: Wed May 06 1998 15:51
mozel (@Aragorn @6Pak) ID#153102:

Yes, inflation is how people resist fiat. That is why the last bout nearly brought the paper palace down.

The federal legal tender statutes govern only those transactions which the federal can take jurisdiction of like federal tax payments, federal guaranteed mortgages, and the like. If people wanted to resist payment with FRN in the States, there is a lot of ammunition in the law.

@6Pak Up is the direction toward the greater light.

Date: Wed May 06 1998 14:11
mozel (@Gold Short @Donald) ID#153102:

It's a bag of do do. Either the bag is being handed off by moves down or they are buying time to patch up bullion banks.

Donald, if they sop up liquidity and hold Buy Back auctions for bonds for less than face value, I don't see the big domestic shock if they can PPT the market down. The Asian stuff is still coming in priced cheap.

Date: Wed May 06 1998 13:39
mozel (@6Pak) ID#153102:

Re: story from Brazil. Common-law plea of necessity. Restricted in Constitution of West Virginia, but nowhere else that I know of.

Date: Wed May 06 1998 13:21
mozel (@the carrier of plague) ID#153102:

"And, behold, one of the children of Israel came and brought unto his brethren a Midianitish woman in the sight of Moses, and in the sight of all the congregation of the children of Israel, who were weeping before the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. And when Phineas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, saw it, he rose up from among the congregation, and took a javelin in his hand; And he went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly. So the plague was stayed from the children of Israel..." Numbers 25:6-13.

Date: Wed May 06 1998 13:02
mozel (@SDRer) ID#153102:

I don't think there are any Princes in IMF. And I don't think they have enough gold to negotiate. ( No relation to Magna Charta that I see either. )

Date: Wed May 06 1998 12:49
mozel (@farfel A post worth more than its weight in Gold.) ID#153102:

Gold revaluation meaning international $US devaluation is the only way out.

$422 leaked is the official gold community demand ( believe it or not the CB have not sold all their gold ) .

If BIS revalues from @208 to $422, the market price will be even higher. Even ARF ARF mines will produce at a profit.

Date: Wed May 06 1998 12:39
mozel (@SDRer) ID#153102:

I think it is safe to say the Euro is not going in the basket. Everything else in the basket is a basket case except $US. I think there are sterile chickens that have come home to roost in the basket ( derivatives of hens ) and a rooster crowing Yankee Doodle.

Date: Wed May 06 1998 12:26
mozel (@6Pak @A Window) ID#153102:

Yer welcome. Spirit of Tecumseh forever !

@A Window I see a Treasury Auction for Buyback of Bonds and the Bid is ten cents on the dollar. Oh, don't cry for me, Argentina, Japan, etc.

Date: Wed May 06 1998 12:15
mozel (@A_Goose) ID#153102:

The Prussian aristocrat von wha'shisname who staked a position in Homestake is on the other side of this opinion. Somebody from Europe is buying Harmony. The Belgians own African mining shares. I think ANOTHER is wrong about mining shares although he may be right about them in some countries like Oz and Kanata and Russkia.

Date: Wed May 06 1998 12:06
mozel (@SDRer) ID#153102:

What happens to the IMF basket of currencies when the European country currencies go away ?

When George Schultz says IMF should go away, I think IMF will go away and the $US will have to stand on its own two feet like any other national paper.

Date: Wed May 06 1998 04:57
mozel (@sharefin) ID#153102:

Going away now to worry about the Oz breed in my PM kennel. Arf. Arf. ( credits to TED )

Date: Wed May 06 1998 04:45
mozel (@reify) ID#153102:

There is a lot of credence given hereabouts to the theories of Ping which foretell ill for Nikkei. That's the only reason I know nobody has seconded your trading idea.

Date: Wed May 06 1998 04:11
mozel (@Scito) ID#153102:

Any day could be your last day.

Date: Wed May 06 1998 03:54
mozel (@sharefin) ID#153102:

Of course, you are correct about the funds' scope of ownership. But, aren't these specialized PM funds ? The managers don't have a choice between IBM and a mining co. It's either mining co. or cash or possibly bullion. I'm of a mind that POG will be a greater factor than what non-POG equities are doing. But, I'm muddle headed about this.

Date: Wed May 06 1998 03:21
mozel (@Alberich) ID#153102:

ALBERICH__A ( @mozel: My initial reaction to your post from 4:30 this morning... ) ID#254112:

..was: the most important thing for Americans to survive in the future is to forbid any further law and to nullify all existing laws.

*** Shall we then send a message to God saying,"Your Law given by Moses and the Christ is hereby repealed by us" ? ( I think that is the "scientific" political law solution which has been underway for some time now. ) Here is a fact. The common-law cannot be repealed except by repealing the Law of Moses and the Christ and destroying all American Constitutions. All liberties, immunities, and rights in American law stand on the foundations of the common-law which derives its authority not merely from reason, custom, and ancient foundations of experience with human nature, but also from its agreement with the Law given in Judeo-Christian scripture. It is our heritage of practical moral knowledge for a rule of just decision. It accords with common sense. All of the political law needs repealing, that's for sure.

Maybe that's also true for all the legal systems in European countries, but there it seems that law is based on more outdated principles but having a milder, less dangerous role in society.

***All of the European "legal systems" derive from Justinian's Code ( an imperial or martial law code ) and they all incorporate the Roman legal concept of status ( persona ) because Europe is still status-ridden, still has Kings and Lords and other people born to higher status. There is nothing benign about that. Everything done by Hitler was legal according to German law ( political law ) , you know.

But before I continue to persue such radical conclusions I'd like to ask for your advice how I can study best the principals of American law, means the political and legal philosophy of the founding fathers, and after that the most important forces which have caused to bend and turn things around until America reached the legal mess in which we see this society today.

***The debt owed to the Chase Bank in 1866 is the turning point. From that came the Legal Tender cases. From that eventually came the Federal Reserve System. From it also came the 14th Amendment which gave corporations federal legal protection from the States and which opened the door to federal judical rule over the States. The Democratic Socialist Revolution of FDR wiped out capitalism and created Corporate Socialism, spawning Global Corporate Socialism ( UN, IMF, & World Bank ) and multi-nationals; it also converted the States into Socialist Corporate subdivisions of the federal via agreements for benefits paid in greenbacks. The Nixon Reorganizations put the government ( federal and state ) more on a martial law footing where it remains.

*** Order Lesson #11 ( Law, Its Origin, Nature, and Development ) and Lesson 17 Constitutional Law Part1 Definitions and General Principles Lesson 18 Constitutional Law Organization and Powers of the United States Government and Lesson 19 Constitutional Law Constitutional Guaranties of Fundamental Rights. The lessons cost $15 or $20 each. Order from RDJ Botty W4013 4th Ave Rt 2 Box 2231 Spooner Wisconsin 54801 Tel 715 635 9569. The lessons and the references mentioned in them will give you a sound foundation.

Have not checked this link lately though.

***On yours below, the original legal concept is not destroyed in America. People know something is wrong with the government. They are just too ignorant of law to know what. Well, learning is the only cure for ignorance. People will either learn or pay the price of ignorance.

***There is no question that nation and race are hardly distinguisible concepts. Read Vattel. There is no question that government has been systematically by force imposing a completely artificial idea of nation on the people since the late 1960's. That which is unnatural can only be sustained by force. "the politically correct prohibiton of acceptance of races, is truly a kind of dangerous racism." I would say "politically correct" is the tyranny of political law. The people at large are being cut off from their heritage and destroyed as a people. I'm afraid separate, but equal was as good a rule of decision as is possible between races in the same polity and when they left that standard, they opened pandora's box. They have certainly undertaken an experiment unique in the history of the world, with the possible exception of the USSR. That experiment ruined a lot of lives and I have grave doubts about this one.

Maybe it was the impossibility to come to grips with a variety of social and ethnically rooted concepts, which cannot be brought together.

For instance: when I lived in Berlin, a few decades ago, I had a friend from Tansania, who grew up in this country under British colonial rule.

I learned very interesting things from him. For instance, he went to a kind if an elite school which was run by Brits, and the students received physical punishment ( i.e., they were beaten ) if they were caught of speaking their native language on the school yard or in the school.

But the most interesting thing in this connection is the following. He described to me the family structure in which he gre up. In the terms of a sociologist, it would be characterized as "martiarchial, polygamous. His mother had about seven children from different fathers. The brothers of the females, his uncle, played the male role in the family. The males in the family are always the uncles of the children. The children have no concept or understanding of what we, in European societies, call father.

The females have temporarily intense relationships to one man at a time. When a child results from such a relationship, the joy is great in the family and the child is accepted by its half-sibblings and the mother and her brother ( s ) .

Now: how would you get such a concept together with a society, where the expectation ( maybe genetically predetermined ) is: lifelong love between male and female and the resulting family structure with all consequences of laws, hetitage laws and so on. I wouldn't like to suppress the Tansanian family structure, but I also wouldn't like to disturb the European family structure by denying it's roots. ( Helping the liberals to destroy our concept of family values. )

And now think: there are not only the concepts of martriarchal-polygamous societies, where the mother plays the absolute dominant role, and the brothers have teir duties. There are also patriarchally structured societies, polygamous ones and monogamous ones.

How do you get such important mating concepts, which might be predetermined by genetically different tendencies, which again predetermine a possible harmony between sucoscious and cognitive conditions of wellbeing, how can all these differences come under one roof of one society?

Philosophically, I do not have a problem with variety. Because I tend to believe, that the different genetic structure of different human races carries and shows the handwriting of the creator. And we should become aware of His handwriting and honor it. Viewed under this philosophical concept, the politically correct prohibiton of acceptance of races, is truly a kind of dangerous racism. But I wrote this now because I'm speculating, what might have destroyed the original legal concept in America. I'm not sure. Before I judge, I'd like to study.

Alberich the Dwarf

Date: Wed May 06 1998 01:40
mozel (@sharefin) ID#153102:

So, you think the same set of people are in PM equities as are in equities in general ?

Date: Wed May 06 1998 01:22
mozel (@T1) ID#153102:

How long will it be before people realize the FRN is merely a dishonored Note for Nothing ? They will not all realize it at once. As you say, those in the halls of power are going to be in the lifeboats when this Titanic sinks. These are our Elect?

P.S. We need to have a heart to heart about this suicide assault notion of yours.

Date: Wed May 06 1998 01:12
mozel (@SDRer) ID#153102:

You have brought to light and brought to this forum the portents of momentous change and documented it. We all admire what you have done. And all here should benefit by it. Thanks very much.

Date: Wed May 06 1998 00:49
mozel (@JED) ID#153102:

The declaration of emergency is real. But everything that has been done has been done in legislation. Most of it is basically unchallenged because the attorneys are part of the government as officers of the court.

The government and the law presume you and Joe and Jane know the law.

You do not have to participate in the inventorying of human flesh.

Whether or not you are an "artificial person" is all about choosing to have a status. Your conduct determines whether or not you have a status. Your choices determine your standing in law.

If the average Joe and Jane invest time and money to learn some law, they can defend themselves in association with others and with the counsel of other average Jane and Joes, make intelligent choices when faced with demands by bureaucrats, avoid "artificial person" status, learn to resist power with law, and be freemen. It sure beats running around in the streets like chickens with their heads cut off or sitting around moaning and groaning and waiting for somebody, somewhere to do something.

Date: Wed May 06 1998 00:32
mozel (@Earl) ID#153102:

If you saw what I posted about "artificial person", you may also find it of interest to know that only "artificial persons" can get on the ballot for Congress.

So, as of now, the political process in this country is broken.

Since our money is broken, our law is broken, too. We Are Broke. But, the paperhangers are going to hang on to The Big Lie that they are holding legitimate office legitimately until the people know enough to yell, "Liar, liar, pants on fire !" Or words to that effect.

A Convention of the States seems to be the only way to get this legal fiction of debt off of the people. The gold debt of this government is more than all the gold ever mined. Can this federal government simply default ? Bye, bye credit. This version of the federal government is in a legal and financial cul de sac. It is as dangerous as a trapped armed robber.

Date: Tue May 05 1998 23:44
mozel (@Marketing Gold Product) ID#153102:

Here's a novel notion. Gold coin from the mint for gold delivered to the mint. The forty-niner paid for his supplies with gold. The mine paid dividends in gold.

Date: Tue May 05 1998 23:37
mozel (@The Scene) ID#153102:

What is coming down is the paper palace.

When all you have is the obligations of a bankrupt, you ain't got nothun'. That is all Korea had. That is all Japan has. A pyramid of debt is a Ponzi.

Date: Tue May 05 1998 21:51
mozel (@JED) ID#153102:

Regarding your court experience, the flag with gold fringe is the flag of the Executive and has nothing to do with Admiralty law or jurisdiction. There is a lot of misinformation about on this topic, but there is no criminal jurisdiction in American Admiralty. There was in an English Court of Vice-Admiralty which is the court the King set up here against the common-law jury courts. The English Court of Vice-Admiralty was a martial law court. A federal district court can be in civil or martial venue and jurisdiction, depending. It is all done sub silentio and unless you know enough law you won't know what's going on. You must read Luther v Borden, and ex parte Milligan to understand the meaning of the term in American constitutional law.

No court has ever admitted any legal significance to the display of the Executive Flag in the courtroom. But, there is political significance which you can read about in the Attorney General's Opinion #34.

Go to a state courtroom. You will find the same Executive Flag displayed on a staff there. Why is a federal flag flying in a state office ? The answer is the state is occupied.

A flag is in a martial display when it is flown from a staff and thus suitable to be carried by marching troops.

A flag is in a Banner or peace display when it is hung with the stripes vertical. Find an old picture of the US House of Representative interior of the area behind the Speaker. You will see the flag hung as a banner. Now it is displayed there on a staff. The Star Spangled Banner is not the Star Spangled Flag on a staff. One is the emblem of a people of peace; the other is a military emblem.

There is significance in the finial on the staff on which the flag flies. The ball finial which you will see atop every flagpole at every public school indicates the site is a recruiting station. The eagle with spread wings finial is martial.

They are showing and telling everything, but ignorance makes an eye blind to significance.

Date: Tue May 05 1998 04:30
mozel (@Alberich) ID#153102:

Here's some citations for your consideration:

"Fraud vitiates the most solemn contracts, documents, and even judgments."
U.S. vs. Throckmorton, 98 U.S. 61. "contracts"; "documents"; "judgments" See also Amistad.

Chief Justice Marshall said either we obey all the national Constitution or we obey none of it.
See Marbury v. Madison, ( 1800 ) 1 Cranch ( 5 U.S. ) 137, 2 L.Ed. 60.

"We are bound to interpret the Constitution in the light of the law as it existed at the time it was adopted."
Mattox v. U.S., 156 US 237, 243.

"...we must extend the authority of the Union to the ( persons ) of the citizens".
The Federalist Papers. No. 15. page 109. Clinton Rossiter Ed.

"...It must carry its agency to the ( persons ) of the citizens..."
The Federalist Papers. No. 15. page 116. Clinton Rossiter Ed.

How the Government see's it:
"Where act uses the word in a special sense which it defines, definition by average man or by ordinary dictionary is not a substitute for the definition contained in the act."
National Homeopathic Hospital Ass'n of D.C. v. Britton, 147 F.2d 561.

"Where words are defined in a particular statute, and it is clear that Legislature intended to give to such words a different meaning than one generally and ordinarily given to such words, statutory definition is one to be applied."
Sisk v. Arizona Ice & Cold Storage Co., 141 P.2d 395.

Lets see if we can all get the word "person" straight when it is used in a Statute. As we see it:

"3. But when the word "person" is spoken of in legislative acts, natural person will be intended, ( unless somthing appear in the context to show that it applies to artificial persons." )
Bouvier Law Dictionary ( 1859 ) ( Emphasis Mine )

"This word 'person' and its scope and bearing in the law, involving, as it does, legal fictions and also apparently natural beings, it is difficult to understand; but it is absolutely necessary to grasp, at whatever cost, a true and proper understanding of the word in all the phases of its proper use...The words persona and persona did not have the meaning in the Roman which attaches to homo, the individual, or a man in the English; it had peculiar reference to artificial beings, and the condition or status of individuals ...A person is here not a physical or individual person, but the status or condition with which he is invested...not an individual or physical person, but the status, condition or character borne by physical condition.

A MOMENTS REFLECTION ENABLES ONE TO SEE THAT MAN AND PERSON CANNOT BE SYNONYOUS, FOR THERE CANNOT BE AN ARTIFICIAL MAN, THOUGH THERE ARE ARTIFICIAL PERSONS. Thus the conclusion is easily reached that the law itself often creates an entity or a being which is called a person; the law cannot create an artificial man, but it can and frequently does invest him with artificial attributes; This is his personality...that is to say, the man-person; and abstract persons, which are fictitious and which have no existence except in law; that is to say, those which are purely legal conceptions or creations."
American Law and Procedures, ( 1910 ) Vol.13, pp. 137-162.

If you are not an Artificial Person by creation of law then you are a Natural Person. This all gets corrupted when the government uses its own definition of words out side of the known definitions in the law dictionary's.

Date: Tue May 05 1998 03:12
mozel (@A_Goose) ID#153102:

I hope SDRer comes bsck to kitco from the hunt to report whatever he finds.

This from one of Speeds Euro links:

"The European Council of Madrid has overeengekomen that at the latest on januari 1st 2002 Euro-coins and bills will be circulated. According to the managment of the Mint of the member states, four years are required between the resolution on the technical specifications.

In order to dispose of enough coins in 2002, the technical preparations of the immense operation begins during the summer of 1997. The actual production will take two or three years.

The metal of the old coins can be reused. 76 billion coins circulating in the 15 member countries contain about 150.000 tonnes of Nickel. The use of plastic money will probably reduce the number of coins with about 20%. Some 15% of thcontain about 150.000 tonnes of Nickel"

This implies base metal country coins will be reminted into base metal Euro coins.

There is one group which must know the truth about Euro coins. Those are the people who are responsible for modifying the coin operated machines in Europe.

There are some unanswered questions about timetable in all of these public announcements on Euro and a lot of them seem to turn on coins.

Date: Tue May 05 1998 02:54
mozel (@RJ) ID#153102:

RJ. What is the point of repeating written questions ? I think you are mentally so much into your job of trading metals that what the goldbugs say doesn't penetrate your thinking. That's all. You have a great understanding of the gold market at Comex, etc. And I hope you will kkeep Kitco informed of your opinions on it.

Date: Tue May 05 1998 02:19
mozel ( @RJ ) ID#153102:

Thanks for mozel.

SDRer will be back. SDRer is into the hunt.

Goodnight ( to dream of a world where hard currencies rule )

Date: Tue May 05 1998 02:19
mozel (@RJ) ID#153102:

You did not answer the questions I posed.

You have not come to grips mentally with the reality that a government exchanged $US obligations paying interest for gold.

You are mentally deskbound. And come to Kitco for entertainment. To tilt at windmills.

Date: Tue May 05 1998 01:57
mozel (@RJ) ID#153102:

I think your battle cry translated is "Point me toward the windmill, Sancho."

Date: Tue May 05 1998 01:33
mozel (@RJ) ID#153102:

It is a mystery to me how a person who prides and styles himself as "realistic" cannot come to grips mentally with the fact $US obligations paying interest were exchanged for 167 Tons of what you persist in thinking is a commodity like rhodium. Just exactly what industrial use do you think that 167 Tons will be consumed in ? Or, do you think there is a great big market for Gold Jewelry from Beijing, maybe ?

Date: Tue May 05 1998 01:22
mozel (@RJcute) ID#153102:

Indeedy, tell it to the Chinese Premier next time he calls to be lectured by RJ on money. 167 Tons. Got that much Mr. Monex ?

Date: Tue May 05 1998 01:16
mozel (@American Legal Tender) ID#153102:

Today if you pay 8.00 Federal Reserve notes for one silver dollar - that would be about right, and some discount for quantity. This amount then represents the "buying site rate" pursuant to 31 USC 5112 ( e ) ( f ) ( g ) ( h ) and the Uniform Commercial Code at Article 3-107. You will find "tender" under the UCC at 3-604. If you want to PAY for something, you must do it with REAL money at the "buying site rate" of exchange on the day of tender.

Date: Tue May 05 1998 00:34
mozel (@0Pak) ID#153102:

"Law, Politics and Religion are woven into a tight mesh, wrapped around the reference to power/control over the people. Law is made by man, and law is redesigned by the people, after a war, or conquest, or riots.

Once the people go on the move, law makers and law lackeys, are put in their place, these types cause war and conflict, not the people per se. The people force Religions to change, and Law and Politics. The circle of life, or progress of man."

This is really enlightening. Thank you so much. ( FWIW, you have not understood a word I have written on this forum. )

"My reference to "We the People" is directed to your country, and your constitutions' preamble. Such reference is not used in Canada. We use "Everyone" "Every Citizen" "Any person" "Citizens""

Well, thank you again. When we want your advice on how to run our country, we know where to find you. Don't call us; we'll call you.

Date: Mon May 04 1998 23:49
mozel (@Legal Tender) ID#153102:

One more time, the three purposes of money in their order of priority:

Unit of Account

Medium of Exchange

Store of Value.

The unit of account in the United States Government and in its laws is the dollar.

The purpose of minting a value on a coin was to show what proportion of a government's unit of account was occupied by the coin. $50 does not mean fifty dollars legally; it means $50.

The US guy who first denominated paper with the same unit of account language as gold coin was FDR. He started the modern USG war on gold with that psywar tactic.

Somebody posted gold's worth is what it is worth in the market: question is what market ? When government is dishonest, where do people go ? To the black market, which is misnomered by government because the black market is really the honest market.

Tolerant1 posted about colonial legal tender. In the Constitution these colonial Bills of Credit were prohibited to be emitted by the States. Now we have federal Bills of Credit emitted by Congress. The same as the Congress issued under the Articles of Confederation as Continentals. 'Twas never supposed to be possible under this Constitution.

RJ says gold is always converted to US$. Really. In China, too ?

Fiat paper currency has only been used in two civilizations: The West and China. The Chinese have been there, done that. Americans have forgotten what happened when bills of credit were emitted by the colonies. But the French have not forgotten the assignat; the Germans have not forgotten the reichmark predecessor of the rentenmark; and the Chinese have fogotten least of all.

Date: Mon May 04 1998 20:14
mozel (@SDRer) ID#153102:

Can ( and will ) you inquire of the parties who are selling "euro" gold coins with the statement that they are legal tender to direct you to the statute ? So we can read it.

The face value and legal tender value of golden eagles are completely unrelated.

The specifications for base metal "euro" coins were last updated 2/97.

It does occur to me that the only "currency union" which could possibly succeed without "political union" would be one in which gold was the currency since it is apolitical.

Date: Mon May 04 1998 17:26
mozel (@A_Goose et. al.) ID#153102:

If the Austrian mint says these coins are legal tender, then let's sask the mint what statute authorized them to say that and read it.

Date: Mon May 04 1998 16:29
mozel (@Alberich) ID#153102:

Date: Mon May 04 1998 13:09
mozel ( @SDRer ) ID#153102:

The Corporation, having privileges and immunities granted by government, is akin to the Prince or Baron of yesteryear. Your rights, privileges, and immunities are endowed by the Creator. The corporation's privileges, and immunities are granted by government. The situation is basically feudal, political law with the Corporation CEO and attorney dividing the political and legal power which was before in the body of a Baron.

When the US Corporation was made into a person in federal law by the 14th Amendment, it became an international person, because federal law is international law."


Obviously the American law makes a difference between:
1 ) A "natural person", which is a human being, let's agree we consider it "god made" and grant it all rights, priviledges, and immunities of the American constitution.

*** Endowed by the Creator means not granted by you or me or any man or set of human beings whether they call themselves a government, a council. a legislature, or any other thing. This is totally alien to Europeans. It is totally alien to people in Commonwealth countries who are ruled by royalty by divine right. American law is based on the proposition that the divine right is equal to all, not endowed just to the Queen of the Netherlands or England or to the King of Spain.

2 ) A legal entity, which is formed on the volontarily entered contractual agreement of two or more "natural persons" as descibed above, to undertake something together, like buying a house, running an enterprise, anything.

***A legal entity is not formed when you and I contract. A legal entity is not formed when I put a sign out front that says STORE. It's my store. A legal agreement is not a legal entity in the same sense that a corporation is spoken of as being a legal entity. A contract cannot appear in court period. It is interesting that in admiralty law, however, Ten Bales of Cotton can be sued "in rem".

In most continental European countries #2 ) is called a "legal person" and legally distinct from a "natural person".

I don't see why such an entity is "government made" and "international".

***Agreements are not government made. That is why liberty of contract is secured in American Constitutions as a right. Rights are not granted in American Constitutions. They are secured there. A corporation is chartered by a government. Men and women are not chartered by government, nor are their rights endowed by government. If it is from government, it is not a right even if they use that word to denote it. If it is federal, it is international, because the federal was granted power by the States to be an international legal entity. The terms of the grant of power are in the federal Constitution.

I don't see the problem and the consequences, when you say:
"When the US Corporation was made into a person in federal law by the 14th Amendment, it became an international person, because federal law is international law."

On the one hand, it seems o.k. to me to allow people to enter contractually based entities, and to protect these entities in some legal way. I don't see why such an entity should be called "government created". It is man created, by the participants.

***Man created and government created are the same thing. What man or government can give, they can restrict or take away. Those are the consequences. Government in Europe can "allow" people to contract. In America, government is established to secure liberty of contract. Corporations have no liberty of contract. Any they have has been granted by statute. A legal entity that has a life in the law independent of its creators and that is not chartered by government is called a pure contract Trust. The oldest common-law trust in America is the American Land Company, the contracts for which were prepared by Patrick Henry. ( You see anti-trust blah blah was more about taxation than anything else. )

It is created based on an agreement between natural persons. However, it is a new type of legal entity, which has not the characteristics of a natural person.

***Says who ? The civil law that sets up "natural person" and "juristic person" can equate their rights, privileges, and immunities. That is what has been done in the various Codes which now pass for law among attorneys in this country.

Does American law treat such an entity like a "natural person"???

alberich the Dwarf

***American statute law ( which is Codified by Law Revisor attorneys and then cited as law in courts ) does by the rule of ejusdem generis equate the flesh and blood man with a corporation. You say, "But I'm a natural person." But, many statutes say ( in legal word art ) that a "natural person" is a juristic person just like a corporation. If you don't know gold is money, you will take paper. If you don't know you are not a corporation, you will be governed as one. A sole corporation consists of one party. If you conduct yourself according to statute as a sole corporation, you establish yourself as a corporation de facto and thence de jure. An individual appears in court with or without a given standing in a given set of legal circumstances.

Date: Mon May 04 1998 14:56
mozel ( @SDRer ) ID#153102:

My question is not POG. My question is, if these Euro coins have a legal tender value, what is it ? If they are minting coins

of gold and have established by statute that the legal tender exchange value of those coins is their face value, then that is

news. It means the Euro is an amount of gold.

Date: Mon May 04 1998 15:24
mozel (@Executive Orders) ID#153102:

They date from George Washington who wrote one creating federal districts which overlapped the states with the exception of I think Rhode Island and another state that were put in the same district. This was for federal taxation administration.

Power in the federal Constitution is divided among the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial departments. The Executive is not a law making department. Its orders must either be authorized by law or indemnified by a bill of appropriation or of law. The Supreme Court is an international tribunal which accommodates the requests in suits and prosecutions of the Executive and the enactments of law of the Legislative to the Constitution insofar as possible. Executive Orders do not in and of themselves have the force of law.

Date: Mon May 04 1998 13:09
mozel ( @SDRer ) ID#153102:

The Corporation, having privileges and immunities granted by government, is akin to the Prince or Baron of yesteryear. Your rights,

privileges, and immunities are endowed by the Creator. The corporation's privileges, and immunities are granted by government. The situation is basically feudal, political law with the Corporation CEO and attorney dividing the political and legal power which was before in the body of a Baron.

When the US Corporation was made into a person in federal law by the 14th Amendment, it became an international person, because federal law is international law."


Obviously the American law makes a difference between:

1 ) A "natural person", which is a human being, let's agree we consider it "god made" and grant it all rights, priviledges, and immunities of the American constitution.

2 ) A legal entity, which is formed on the volontarily entered contractual agreement of two or more "natural persons" as descibed above, to undertake something together, like buying a house, running an enterprise, anything.

In most continental European countries #2 ) is called a "legal person" and legally distinct from a "natural person".

I don't see why such an entity is "government made" and "international".

I don't see the problem and the consequences, when you say:

"When the US Corporation was made into a person in federal law by the 14th Amendment, it became an international person, because federal law is international law."

On the one hand, it seems o.k. to me to allow people to enter contractually based entities, and to protect these entities in some legal way. I don't see why such an entity should be called "government created". It is man created, by the participants.

It is created based on an agreement between natural persons. However, it is a new type of legal entity, which has not the characteristics of a natural person.

Does American law treat such an entity like a "natural person"???

Date: Mon May 04 1998 14:38
mozel (@common-law ) ID#153102:

"The Law hath not been Dead though the Law hath Slept."

You can purchase a Law Course for $250.00 from R.D.J. Botty, Common Law Researcher, at W4013 4th Ave. Spooner, Wisconsin 54801 phone 715-635-9569. There is a web site, but I don't have the URL.

I also recommend the law material from Behold!. That doesn't mean I'm recommending their religious views.

Date: Mon May 04 1998 14:10
mozel (@Tolerant1) ID#153102:

I would express it thus: an attorney is a mouth for a juristic person, a juristic person being one who has no existence outside statute and which was authorized or permitted to come into being by statute and which accordingly has no mouth of its own.

Date: Mon May 04 1998 13:59
mozel (@SDRer) ID#153102:

What is the legal tender value of these coins you are pursuing. Is it the face value or a value derived from a market price of gold ?

Date: Mon May 04 1998 13:44
mozel (@Alberich) ID#153102:

I enjoyed reading your views on Lord Rees Moog and European politics.

Although people in other countries talk about their "rights", I don't think they have their rights in law in the same sense as in America. The common-law rights of people in Commonwealth countries would be an exception to that. But, they have been overlaid by political law generally just as has occurred in the USA. But the rights declared in the Virginia Declaration of RIghts or those in the federal Bill of Rights are uniquely American, I think. The European law derives from the code of Justinian and has ever been political, feudal, civil law. Superficially, ( and if you appear by attorney personally ) , European and American law may seem to be similar though tort actions are unknown in Europe. But, in American law all sovereignty derives from the people and that is the foundation of the law. But, if you don't know how to have it, you don't get it. And they do not make it easy to have. They want everyone to appear in court as a corporation.

In America, government and the law presume you know the law. If you go get hearsay opinion from a lawyer, you get what you pay for. A corporation can only appear in court by attorney.

Date: Mon May 04 1998 13:09
mozel (@SDRer) ID#153102:

The corporation exists only in some legal framework. So, it seeks the highest level of legal framework and legal guarantee available as a plant seeks sunlight. The Multilateral Treaty in which several States provide mutual privileges and immunities to corporations of either would establish the corporation as a special international person, a Super Person. It is possible that by the terms of such a Treaty, a corporation operating in more than one country would have privileges and immunities greater than even a domestic corporation. International law is political law by its nature. The Corporation, having privileges and immunities granted by government, is akin to the Prince or Baron of yesteryear. Your rights, privileges, and immunities are endowed by the Creator. The corporation's privileges, and immunities are granted by government. The situation is basically feudal, political law with the Corporation CEO and attorney dividing the political and legal power which was before in the body of a Baron. When the US Corporation was made into a person in federal law by the 14th Amendment, it became an international person, because federal law is international law.

In the old days you had the Baron and his retainers as an interest group. Now you have the Corporation and its shareholders and employees as an interest group.

Date: Mon May 04 1998 02:46
mozel (@auckland) ID#153102:

I thought I heard that the cables in NZ were buried that were involved in the Auckland blackout, and I have wondered since if they were buried for environmental reasons ?

Date: Mon May 04 1998 02:40
mozel (@Lord Rees Moog) ID#153102:

was quite outspoken about the ECB nomination. But, why ? Was it because the rule of law, the Maastrich Treaty, was apparently violated by accommodation of the French demand ? Or because the demand was French ? Or was it because the English were hoping the whole thing would scuttle and now it appears it won't ?

Date: Mon May 04 1998 02:22
mozel (@6Pak) ID#153102:

Of course, a man has a right of property in his labor. But, do you realize that all rights are rights in property ? Your liberties are rights in property. When you attack rights in property, you attack the foundations of freedom.

( In American law a right may not be taxed. Yet, the right to property in labor is taxed by the income tax, apparently. Or maybe people just do not understand the law. )

The corporations are created by government. They are creatures of government. If government were to cease to exist or to have a discontinuity of existence, the existence of the corporation would be compromised, perhaps extinguished. So, the corporations and government are allied. Corporate Socialism is the American form of socialism. The government can make any rules and regulations for its creatures that it wishes. You may feel the weight of a corporation, but the power behind it is the government. And the spokesman for the corporation is the attorney who is an officer of the court, a branch of government.

The corporation is justified in the law on the basis of public benefit. On the basis of public benefit, the corporation is granted privileges and immunities which amount to advantages over the non-corporate competitor. I do not see how these advantages are for public benefit.

The corporation got the upper hand in the US with the passage of the 14th Amendment which made the corporation a person protected by federal law. Until then the corporations were controlled by and in the States. They were controlled so effectively that they were not a political force before 1860. There was no need for federal anti-monopoly law because private monopoly is prohibited in the common law. The propaganda of the day was that the 14th Amendment was for the freedmen. But, the major beneficiary was the corporation. Today it is popularly supposed only the national government can control the corporation. But, that is putting the fox as guard in the henhouse. The corporations are out of control precisely because they are protected by Congress from the States. Do Canadian corporations also have federal protection from provincial law ?

It's too much to explain here, but, in essence, most Americans due to ignorance of law are taxed and governed by statute as if they were corporations and not men and women. So, many laws that were promoted to restrict shareholder corporations in reality mostly restrict the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness of people. It might be that way in Canada, too.

FDR and the demoncrats in Congress did precisely what I stated. FDR called his program the National Socialist Plan.

I don't know enough about Canada to make any suggestions for your We The People there.

All of your rights are rights in property. If you think that is B.S., I think it is from studying history without also studying the history of law.

Date: Mon May 04 1998 01:20
mozel (@themissinglink) ID#153102:

The Crane I had in mind sponsored the law for the minting of golden eagles and for their legal tender status and value based on the international market price of gold.

In all truth, Congress had no choice but to allow Americans to own gold and to mint coins once Nixon reneged on gold redeemability. Up to that point the legal fiction could be maintained that there was gold behind the Note. Americans underestimate the people in government. Congress legislates within the law though it is always at the limit of it. Americans do not comprehend that the government and the law presumes they know the law. But, they should, because that is what the Declaration of Independence was all about.

Date: Mon May 04 1998 00:59
mozel (@SDRer) ID#153102:

I, too, sense a lot of significance in the sudden shortening of the dual ciruclation of national currencies and the Euro. They could shorten it down to nothing apparently.

When those currencies disappear, what happens to the IMF basket ?

Date: Mon May 04 1998 00:31
mozel (@aurophile) ID#153102:

Just by way of illustrative proof, in a deposition or hearing in the recent past Hillary Clinton invoked her common-law right as a wife to be immune from being forced to testify against her husband. And, her right in common-law was upheld.

Date: Mon May 04 1998 00:26
mozel (@Ayork) ID#153102:

Thanks to the US Congress and Representative Crane and to people like RJ who sell golden eagles and the grace of God, I am not broke. No American need be broke. If they are broke, it is by their own choice and ignorance.

Date: Mon May 04 1998 00:21
mozel (@aurophile) ID#153102:

Yesterday's newspaper is past. Maybe some events were prologue; maybe not. But, yesterday's law is not past. It is not prologue. It is as alive today as when the ink was wet. Until it is repealed, it is alive, in force, available to those who know how to access it and who have standing to do so. So far as I know, no Constitution has ever been repealed in America. And save for a few States which have no Consitutions ( and really are not truly States ) , all Constitutions on this continent exist in the common-law.

Date: Sun May 03 1998 23:46
mozel (@aurophile) ID#153102:

There have been two revolutions of this Constitution from the top: One by Lincoln and the Reconstruction Congresses and the second by FDR and the New Deal Congresses. In the meantime, the attorneys have made government and the law mostly a private preserve for the benefit of themselves and their well heeled clients, the corporations. They have overlaid the common-law with a layer of political law. But, nothing has really died. It's analagous to an archaeological site perhaps, where under every layer of the debris from a new city, is the foundations of the previous.

Date: Sun May 03 1998 23:13
mozel (@aurophile) ID#153102:

The full weight of the New Deal fell on business. The corporations just became part of the Corporate Socialist State. Private merchants are not temperamentally or otherwise equipped for armed resistance. Individual business people fought socialism in the courts and, in put-up cases, were defeated. If you actually read those decisions, there was more left undecided than decided. To this day, to the best of my knowledge, there has never been a decision on the constitutionality of the employee portion of social security. The Supreme Court is fully aware that the Constitution is in some kind of suspended state due to the bankruptcy of the federal government. In Ashwander vs TVA they laid down rules for the purpose of preventing as much as possible any constitutional rulings whatsoever in the present state of things.

The government put up a pretense that the Greenbacks issued during the Bank Holiday were backed by gold and would one day be redeemable for gold. But people are noticing and starting to question more and more. It's not a story you will see in the media, however.

Date: Sun May 03 1998 22:09
mozel (@skinny) ID#153102:

If FDR had come right out and said, "I'm stealing your gold; I'm making you a tenant of the government on your land, I'm taking title to your car in return for license plates, I'm indebting you and your children to pay perpetual interest on permament, ever increasing debt, I'm starting a social insurance scheme that is a ponzi designed to defraud and cheat and break covenants, I'm putting a banking system in place to track all your transactions, and I am suborning your State Governments to treason to the Constitution... do you think there would have been armed resistance to the demoncratic socialist revolution ?

Date: Sun May 03 1998 21:55
mozel (@RJ) ID#153102:

Yes, these Notes for Nothing buy gold. And I'm buying something with nothing with as many Notes for Nothing that I can lay my hands on. Prospectively, either the Paper is worth less than nothing or the Gold is worth its weight as jewelry. I'm betting on the gold.

P.S. You also own your other "personal belongings". A hundred years ago people were not insolvent and they owned their land and appurtances. Now, you say they are insolvent and I say they have no absolute, clear title to their land. What happened ?

Date: Sun May 03 1998 21:41
mozel (@chas) ID#153102:

Everyone is focusing on the Euro versus the $US. But, if you read the statuatory history of deep dodo that I posted, you know the $US exists only in terms of the IMF.

The BIS issue with gold is its use to guarantee performance in transactions. The only way US$ transactions can be secured with gold is with IMF gold. The US Treasury, if it has any, does not put its gold in the Reserves of the Federal Reserve. As Rubin told Congress IMF cannot sell any gold. It is gold overextended now in all probability. The Euro CB does propose to include gold in its reserves. So, the Euro is a challenge to the whole IMF structure. Look at the currencies that make up the currency basket at IMF for the SDR. How many of those currencies are going away if Euro flies ?

Date: Sun May 03 1998 21:12
mozel ( @RJ ) ID#153102:

Thanks for all your intelligent analysis, they are a source of fresh air in a sometimes squalid environment.

Date: Sun May 03 1998 21:23
mozel (@Paper) ID#153102:

I think we have seen that the only paper which has intrinsic value is a bond securitized by the property of a company. The bondholders of the mining companies have first call and only if something is left over do the stockholders have anything tangible for their paper.

Date: Sun May 03 1998 21:12
mozel (@RJ) ID#153102:

You stated the Assets of the US exceed the Liabilities.

Prove it.

In fact, if you auctioned all of the property of the federal government and got a good price, you would be unable to retire the existing official debt. I know. I have run the numbers. The unfunded Liabilities exceed the debt by a factor of about three.

Now in your own pocket and account consider that everything there is debt. All of your greenbacks are a liability. And if you paid for your car with debt, you do not really own it. You can fool yourself that gold is not money, but the law is not fooled. Look at your car title. Look at your land deed. No land or vehicles have been owned by private persons since the New Deal. The Manufacturer's Statement of Origin for your car is in the hands of your State Department of Motor vehicles. That is the title of ownership. Your deed is registered at the county clerk's office. That registration makes the State an equitable owner in your land. That is why if you do not pay feudal tribute in tax like a serf for the privilege of being on the land, you will be evicted and the land sold.

All you own is your thong.

Date: Sun May 03 1998 20:50
mozel (@awesome) ID#153102:

The propaganda power revealed in the reports that are posted here on Gold from the wire services is astounding. And all for one purpose: to conceal the fact Gold is money. The presentation of the fact of gold moving from Bank A to Bank B as a gold sale and the blather of A Smith about structural changes like derivatives are bold lies indeed. Was Pravda ever any more brash in spinning out pure prevarications ? The lights may appear to go out altogether in the coming months. If you don't know what you know, you will be spun where they wish you to go.

Date: Sun May 03 1998 20:33
mozel (@6Pak) ID#153102:

I have no affiliation with the link you posted nor with anybody associated with it. The last time I looked the spurious non-judicial abatement was being promoted there. Avoid it.

Have you officially joined your support to ROR's Socialist Democratic NWO government ?

Date: Sun May 03 1998 17:47
mozel (@6Pak) ID#153102:

Going purely on trust, I assume you have an explanation tying all these clips and quotes together. But I don't know what it is yet.

Date: Sun May 03 1998 16:58
mozel (@6Pak) ID#153102:

Why on earth would you have such a quote ready at hand and what on earth does it relate to ? What is a peace movement?

Date: Sun May 03 1998 16:44
mozel (@Retired_Soldier) ID#153102:

For the record, I don't recall objecting to your handle.

I have noticed that you are providing a lot of anecdotal evidence to support the theory that Peace and The Chosen People cannot exist together in the same country.

Date: Sun May 03 1998 12:37
mozel (@ROR 9:56) ID#153102:

I wonder how many others here share ROR's assessment of the real economy.

Date: Sun May 03 1998 12:18
mozel (@Alberich The Dwarf) ID#153102:

Your warnings echo those of Patrick Henry at the convention for ratification of the Constitution. The lust for power never sleeps, never goes away. Power only yields to power.

But, no government can endure without the active support of some and the silent support or indifference of many. The ultimate coin of government is legitimacy. When the sense of the people becomes that a government no longer serves desireable ends, the days of that government are numbered. The Shah had a ruthless, efficient secret police, but the Shah is no more.

America was founded in the fulfillment of English and European Enlightenment. A written Constitution for a government is a high water mark in the progress of reason in the affairs of men. By it, power is made subject to law. Nothing is perfect and no administration of law is perfect. The coin of government in America is debased. No question. But new coin can be struck, and will be. The mint is the American people and they are not done yet.

Date: Sun May 03 1998 04:47
mozel (@Prometheus) ID#153102:

I'm just trying to relate to 6Pak. On the level.

Date: Sun May 03 1998 01:31
mozel (@6Pak @Auric) ID#153102:

@6Pak There was no census so you are plucking numbers out of grievance. Take it up with the bugs. Next you will want reparations for Hong Kong Flu.

@Auric Infinite regression has some deep appeal to the psyche. I wonder if E-Wave study is not an expression of the attraction to infinite regression.

Date: Sun May 03 1998 01:05
mozel (@Auric) ID#153102:

So, there are little people running around inside of us ?

Date: Sun May 03 1998 00:59
mozel (@6Pak) ID#153102:

Well, the whatchamaycallem's were no angels.

There were 500 Nations in North America. I'd like to see a map drawn by them. If they could ever agree on one. Boundaries moved around here just like they did in Europe. On the war path was not a concept brought here by Europeans.

Date: Sun May 03 1998 00:21
mozel (@Earl) ID#153102:

One thing American TIP's have a legitimate beef over is the two-faced federal judicial treatment of the word treaty.

On that score, if honoring their sovereign treaty status is reparations ( which distorts the word beyond recognition ) , I'm all in favor.

But, they ain't got no talent for victimhood. Got too much manhood in 'em for that.

Date: Sun May 03 1998 00:05
mozel (@6Pak @A Talent for Victimhood) ID#153102:

Let's face it. TIP's just have no talent for victimhood. I mean, being as sympathetic to the case for TIP victim status as possible, I still can't get it out of my head that GIP's ( Government Issue People ) yell Geronimo when they jump out of aircraft. I mean Geronimo is a hero name. The caught him and locked him up, but he was never their victim. There was just too much dignity in him.

It's like Crazy Horse. They named a bar after him. You don't name bars after victims. You name bars after admired men.

No, I think the TIP's gave as good as they got. Maybe better. So, they ended up having to share the continent. That doesn't make them victims. I just don't think victimhood becomes them. Can you imagine a great man like Tecumseh applying for reparations ? I can't.

Date: Sat May 02 1998 23:36
mozel (@6Pak @S) ID#153102:

I think all those heathern terms are important. The best names on the map are the old heathen names. I never heard of Turtle Island before though. It doesn't even sound heathen like Mississippi or Powhatan or Chickasaw or Natchez. It sounds like some place in the Thames.

You may learn something new everyday at Kitco. For example, I never knew Indians, I mean TIP's, spoke German til I visited the link S. gave me. Do you think the Bronfman Commission will be making a reparation demand on TIP's ?

S. Are you in favor of giving gold to Indians or taking it away ? Your posts, some parts of them, confuse me, too.

Date: Sat May 02 1998 23:11
mozel (@6Pak) ID#153102:

I know TIP's ( Turtle Island Peoples ) valued hairpieces more than shiny metal, But, isn't there some truth to the rumor the British and French paid TIO's for colonial hairpieces with, God forbid, gold ?

Date: Sat May 02 1998 23:01
mozel (@6Pak) ID#153102:

You obviously never heard of William Penn.

Anyway, is Turtle Island the heathen term for North America ?

Date: Sat May 02 1998 22:46
mozel (@6Pak) ID#153102:

Boy, those Native Nations sure got a raw deal.

I know it's true that they took the wrong side in the War of Independence and kind of cooked their propsects for good relations with the colonists. But, you know it may all work out in the end. There is a lot of gold in Fort Knox that came out of the Black Hills and Sacramento Valley and if this gold reparation thing becomes the trend it has the potential to be, there will be Indians claiming their great-grandmother's gold is in the US Treasury or in your watchband With these spectroscopes and scintillation meters, there's is just no telling whose gold roving bands of lawyers might be claiming. Can you imagine Inca reparations ?

Date: Sat May 02 1998 22:25
mozel (@Tamarlane) ID#153102:

Shall means may in the statute.

USG had the richest vein of gold in N.A. on property in the West and gave it away in a bill sponsored by Senatoressa Feinstein of the Clintonistas. If they are buying gold, it is from somebody like Blum, Feinstein's hubby, and I'm sure they are paying top dollar. I have speculated before that USG or Fed Reserve is on the other side of some or all of ABX's wonderful hedge program.

Date: Sat May 02 1998 18:43
mozel (@Tomorrow @ICQ) ID#153102:

@Tomorrow Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, & Italy pull out of Nato. The United States then is committed to defend Middle Europe all alone. UK half pulls out of Nato, but statys in enough to give US guidance in continental military matters. US military industrial complex invests in Chamgagne.

@ICQ in only one place. If everybody is going somewhere else, me, too.

Date: Sat May 02 1998 18:35
mozel (@Squirrel) ID#153102:

Golden Knife.

Nice image.

The net is rotten. The fact Politicians call it a safety net is conclusive evidence that it is rotten.

Senate voted 81 to 19 for Nato expansion. Does Nato and Euro overlap ? Has the Senate just assumed defense responsibilities for Euro ? Insanity rules.

Date: Sat May 02 1998 18:23
mozel (@Squirrel) ID#153102:

BIS knows what is in the vault. The whole reason for BIS to exist is so that somebody trustworthy is there to watch the vault.

Date: Sat May 02 1998 18:14
mozel (@Carl) ID#153102:

Well, ECB is a new bank. So, if it holds gold, gold is still money. If it doesn't, gold is not money. I know that begs the question that if gold is money, what is this other stuff ? But, it's as rational as they can be, at the moment.

Date: Sat May 02 1998 18:08
mozel (@Bar Room a.k.a. Beer Hall Discussion) ID#153102:

It occurs to me that the propaganda campaign to convince the little people of the world that gold is not money is going so well ( And needs to go well for the safety of USG incumbents ) that the Euro people are definitely not going to rock the boat. Perhaps we should view the various technical predictions of horror for POG in summer in light of this political reality.


Date: Sat May 02 1998 17:59
mozel (@Tolerant1) ID#153102:

If I add expatriate Americans to Island Men and Boat People and wannabes of one of the foregoing classifications, I think I have defined a majority of kitcoites.

Date: Sat May 02 1998 17:30
mozel (@Tolerant1) ID#153102:

This site seems to be inhabited by a large proportion of Island Men and Boat People.

Date: Sat May 02 1998 17:15
mozel (@squirrel) ID#153102:

Rational fear is not lunacy though it may be proved unfounded by subsequent events. Since FDR, they have been betting everything. It takes a long time to bet everything. But, the world keeps turning. Lunacy is to think they have repealed the Law of Nature permanently.

Date: Sat May 02 1998 17:05
mozel (@Tolerant1) ID#153102:

The man who wants to appear wise without knowing anything or thinking about anything has latched onto the saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Study and prepare for the day that is coming when all shall say. "It's broke. What shall we do to fix it ?"

Date: Sat May 02 1998 16:21
mozel (@Donald) ID#153102:

That's not a correction. That's the introduction to the longer version. ( BTW in my longer version 100 is not a great enough factor. )

Date: Sat May 02 1998 16:14
mozel (@A New History) ID#153102:

A Short Version of a New History of the last half of the twentieth century might go like this. Americans went overseas and conquered foreign nations and brought their gold back to these shores. Then, they spent it.

Date: Sat May 02 1998 16:08
mozel (@Tolerant1) ID#153102:

How about Godzilla Python ?

It is bankruptcy that is out of Asia. X-flation ( In or De ) does not exactly capture the reality of Less Than Zero. Empty Belly come closer.

Date: Sat May 02 1998 15:44
mozel (@Donald &JTF) ID#153102:

The Arrow of Time.

HG Wells, proto intellectual of NWO, was the inventor - in fiction - of the time machine, a device which defied the Law of Nature. The Law of Nature is that the Arrow of Time goes in one direction only. The prospect of remaking human nature and escaping the Law of Nature was very exciting to intellectuals at the turn of the century.

The NWO of Socialism is a world of fiction. Science fiction, accounting fiction, economic fiction, and legal fiction. ( Puleesse don't throw up Heinlin. ) It's all about belief that mankind can escape the limits and boundaries of body and human nature and the Law of Nature on this planet. That is the vision that all true believers have in common. They fought in flesh and blood in this century over territory of the imagination, imaginary territory, in some future world of fiction. It was a religious movement as belief in evolution is a religious belief.

The phrase failure of Global Socialist Banking sponsored by the USG means there is no international monetary system. If you have something tangible, you have wealth. If you don't, you don't. Though the Law hath slept, it is not dead - ever.

Date: Sat May 02 1998 15:06
mozel (@Donald) ID#153102:

Yes, it's the pushing on a string situation. The phrase soldiers for socialism comes to mind. Can an army be an economy ?

Really, what I see is a world coming to grips with the fact there is no longer any creditor nation. The USG put forth the legal fictions in international law and via World Bank and IMF in support of the idea that it was the world's creditor nation and its tender ought to be the world's reserve currency. Well, a legal fiction won't work among sovereigns for long if at all. The instant the US reneged on greenback redeemability to gold, the world changed. Japan cannot be the world's creditor nation because it has only accumulated debt in exchange for goods. So, international trade is going to gold and the trade your nation can finance will be determined by the amount of gold it puts on the table to securitize its settlement risk. I think this is independent of the fate of the Euro, ultimately.

Date: Sat May 02 1998 14:41
mozel (@Donald) ID#153102:

It is quite confusing.

I think repatriated yen are going into Japanese banks.

The way I make sense of it is like this. In the Japan-USA trade tango, Japan was never accumulating wealth but was only accumulating the debt instruments of a bankrupt trading partner. How can the nation that has accumulated the most debt of another nation be called a creditor nation ? Well, they can be called that by Keynsian's who don't know solvent from insolvent, but it won't bank. Because it won't bank, Japan is having trouble getting credit.

Date: Sat May 02 1998 14:15
mozel (@kuston) ID#153102:

Planting, raising, or making according to contract negotiated in advance is akin to cost plus government work. It is essentially risk free provided the other side of the contract is solvent and trustworthy. A lot of chickens come to market that way. I'm sure a lot of vegetable produce does as well. It is a kind of vertical integration without vertical investment. You can think everything is done this way if you like. But, when government is on the other side of the hedge, it is a subsidy. Conveying that point was the purpose of my illustration.

Date: Sat May 02 1998 13:29
mozel (@miscellaneous) ID#153102:

Look at who endorsed your check for income tax which you made payable to IRS. This will answer a question about interest payment.

RJ still cannot grasp that you can never pay debt with debt. Or that all the little digital entries are measures of debt. Or than debt is a burden. Or that debt is risk. This is good. If it were not so, he would not exchange gold for paper. I hope his thinking never advances any further than where it is.

The word "shall" does not mean what you think it means when it is used in an American statute. Refer to a legal dictionary to understand the significance of words in statutes.

The model for modern banking and finance ( Meyer's testimony ) looks to me to be very similar to some popular notions of the way the universe works: no constants ( assets ) just risk management ( probabilities in equations ) with intervention by supervision to restore stochastic balance at another level. I observe that at every new level of apparent equilibrium there is less morality and more moral hazard. This is predictable in a world ruled by people who deny there is any knowledge except according to their self-serving definition of "scientific". Where there is no moral knowledge there is no moral authority. There is none in the world of the elite. Can such people long govern dummies like me ? Or even themselves ?

Dynastic fortunes are primarily concerned with the preservation of the fortune and its increase. Alberich seems to be in a thinking mode which may lead him to conclude there are US and Euro branches of the NWO. Like the journalist Barry Chamish postulated in a post about the travels of Netanyahu which I put up a whole back. The proper framework for understanding these times is not, I think, in terms of family dynasties (though no doubt a good factual story can be told along those lines). It is rather that IMF is an internationl legal creation serving primarily the national interests of the bankrupt USG and BIS is a solvent international legal creation securitized with gold and serving the interests of shareholder members in keeping international trade up and running.

It is kind of sobering to reflect that BIS may be the only solvent institution in the whole world.

People have posted "Why and where is gold money ? I have never used gold as money." This is like unto a soviet citizen of yore saying "what is property ? I have never had any." Without gold, none of the terms or forms of law and finance have any meaning. Where it matters to governments, they still have meaning. Everything else is to dupe the man on the street. Federal Reserve Notes are legal fictions; they are literally Notes for Nothing. Only the ignorant think they are more than that. The incontrovertible proof that gold is money is that it is in banks. That is why the phrase "Central Bank sales of gold" has such significance. It implies gold is not money. But, before accepting the propaganda of that phrase wholeheartedly, I suggest looking to see who is on the other side of these CB sales of gold. If it is another bank, gold is still money. When banks empty their vaults of gold with sales of it for paper held in the lobby of the bank, you can conclude gold is not money.

In the meantime, foresight as to the consequences of "no happy ending for Japan" should in my opinion occupy our minds.

Date: Sat May 02 1998 01:55
mozel (@Forward Sales) ID#153102:

Where is the rest of the story ?

Why can't farmers forward sell their corn crop to Kellogg ? Because Kellogg wants the best price. Kellogg uses corn to make a product that must compete with other like products. In the futures market Kellogg and the farmer each buy and sell in the future specualtively aiming for the best price. The pure speculators provide liquidity.

Jewelry fabrication aside, Gold has only one true use. As money. If gold were not money, still, and not a commodity like corn, there would be no need for forward sales contracts at all. Mines could close until there was just enough gold produced and offered to the futures market to make jewelry. But, that's not happening is it ? That is because gold is money. Banks do not buy gold as Kellogg buys corn, The fact gold is privately traded for paper is a temporary, historical anomaly. The fact is the forward sales contracts between gold producers and banks is an industry subsidy program. Like tobacco allotments. To control production and "price".

Date: Sat May 02 1998 01:09
mozel (@SDRer) ID#153102:

My thoughts exactly about FV.

Date: Sat May 02 1998 00:17
mozel (@Methinks Gold is Sovereign He) ID#153102:


Why not FARTCO ?

Gold like Sampson, captive for these long years, shall one day soon in the midst of their celebrations pull the pillars of their palace down upon them and liberate the people.

Date: Fri May 01 1998 21:07
mozel (@POG) ID#153102:

There is only one reason for government authorities to control POG with gold loans, acceptance of mine production promises at face value, and propaganda. That reason is to deny the people of the world a hedge against the devaluation of government legal tender paper. If that is not a criminal conspiracy, what is ?

Date: Fri May 01 1998 20:38
mozel (@nanyuki) ID#153102:

It's sad. A man with great responsibilities died the death of a criminal by his own hand. Pityful and immense jumbled together.

Date: Fri May 01 1998 04:27
mozel (@Cap'n Disney) ID#153102:

Me and all my friends was born in the wrong century. That maybe is why we are so unpredictable.

Date: Fri May 01 1998 04:13
mozel (@ISO) ID#153102:

All I know is what I read in the funny papers. Posted big "loss" for the quarter. 300 million. But not to worry. It's still got good NAV and Kebbles & Bits is worth more.

Date: Fri May 01 1998 03:49
mozel (@Ruins) ID#153102:

Two Empires, two military-industrial complexes. Treasuries exhausted. Institutions decrepit. Their people weary of taxation and shabby in spirit. The fruits of war. A story told again and again in history.

Date: Fri May 01 1998 03:29
mozel (@My Own Reflection) ID#153102:

The manipulation of markets to coincide the with broadcast of the sound and image of POTUS is taken in stride by those who are aaware of it. But, the implications of this are really unsettling if you think about it. The Treasury Department of America scuttering about on behalf of the vanity of a man. The imagination is not equal to conjecturing what goes on behind closed doors if this is done in front of the world.

Date: Fri May 01 1998 03:16
mozel (@aurator) ID#153102:

I still can't figure it. There are so many buckskins on the hoof here even now that I doubt you could get hardly more than a buck for one today.

BTW cooking the oyster is more often than not retrograde culinary action.

Date: Fri May 01 1998 03:05
mozel (@aurator) ID#153102:

Did you ever find out how many buckskins were in a Buck ?

Jeil keeps posting his worrisome projection of more bite in the bear. My take is that another downleg will just make the CB problems with short paper overhang that much worse. So, they won't let it. What think thee ?

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