Mozel - part II

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MOZEL's Thoughts  - part II

Mozel I
Mozel II
Mozel III
Mozel IV

as collated from the Kitco gold forum

Date: Tue May 26 1998 23:15
mozel (@6Pak) ID#153102:

There's just no pleasing you.

Date: Tue May 26 1998 23:11
mozel (@farfel) ID#153102:

EBT a.k.a. Electronics Benefit Transfer will save the day. You will be able to buy anything with EBT after the deluge. This will remove the stigma of being on welfare.

Remember what FDR said about Lend Lease ??: when a neighbor is in need, we can't let a silly little thing like the dollar stand in the way.

What's another word for tyranny: FIAT.

Date: Tue May 26 1998 22:06
mozel (@Midas) ID#153102:

When you hear or read of one who did not go quietly, think of me.

Date: Tue May 26 1998 22:03
mozel (@6Pak) ID#153102:

Saw the post on the Cameco spill.

Disgusting. Environmental horror. Mother Earth burned and tormented.

I think it's the last straw. Decent sharing, caring Canadians must demand their representatives OUTLAW GOLD EXTRACTION NOW.

Gold owing Canadians ( A.K.A. Demoncratic Socialists ) should donate what gold they have to the Fund To Bailout Indonesia Now and never touch the filty yellow stuff ever agin.

Date: Tue May 26 1998 21:51
mozel (@Midas) ID#153102:

The world is going to hell in a handbasket.

Let us have our fun.

This is too serious to be serious about.

Got Gold. Hold some up to your forehead. It will chill your fevered brow.

Date: Tue May 26 1998 21:46
mozel (@Hurrah for TOBACCO) ID#153102:


Date: Tue May 26 1998 21:40
mozel (@6Pak) ID#153102:


All that demonstratin'.

And there's still 24 hours in a day. Must be a lesson there somewhere for somebody.

Date: Tue May 26 1998 21:23
mozel (@LGB) ID#153102:

What Stock is guaranteed to go up ?

Answer: Federal Prisons, Inc

But, so far as I know they don't serve Chinese food. Maybe when Clinton gets back they will be serving it.... to American inmates incarcerated by Federal Prisons, Inc in China.

Suggestions. Invest in your future. Call a Tortfeasor. Buy a set of chopsticks. And consider changing your handle to Big Insider.

Date: Tue May 26 1998 19:05
mozel (@Should taxpayers in Canada finance) ID#153102:

"Should taxpayers in Canada finance the bailout of banks that lent money in Indonesia?"

Personally, I think it would be the sharing, caring thing to do. I don't know how Candaians will be able to look themselves in the mirror if they don't.

Think of Jin, Canadians. Do the right thing.

Date: Tue May 26 1998 18:58
mozel (@Tolerant1) ID#153102:

Here's a funny thing.

A Court of Record is not a "Court of Record". Remember that.

What do you think will happen if people ever realize that all the Deeds recorded in the "Court of Record" are sham ? And that the true owner of the property is the party of interest for whom the State collects ground-rent ? ( The Bank ) .

Date: Tue May 26 1998 18:47
mozel (@Should taxpayers in Canada finance the ) ID#153102:

You see noone has a working definition of money.

Noone has a working definition of tyranny, because noone knows what law is any more.

It was tyranny to outlaw gold as money when the Constitution requires it.

It was tyranny to require a license and payment of tribute to drive on the highway.

It was tyranny to require a registration of a car and take the owner's proof of ownership to issue it.

"Should taxpayers in Canada finance the bailout of banks that lent money in Indonesia?"

Personally, I think it would be the sharing, caring thing to do. I don't know how Candaians will be able to look themselves in the mirror if they don't.

Think of Jin, Canadians. Do the right thing.

Date: Tue May 26 1998 18:38
mozel (@Tolerant1) ID#153102:

You see noone has a working definition of money.

Noone has a working definition of tyranny, because noone knows what law is any more.

It was tyranny to outlaw gold as money when the Constitution requires it.

It was tyranny to require a license and payment of tribute to drive on the highway.

It was tyranny to require a registration of a car and take the owner's proof of ownership to issue it.

It was tyranny to put debt on the land so the generations must pay ground rent like serfs of yore.

It was tyranny to impose martial law on the States.

It was tyranny to falsify the Constitution by excluding the 13th Amendment of 1819 after 1860.

I could go on at length.

But, everyone is comfortable with tyranny now. Don't rock the boat is the byword.

So, maybe just floating away is the better part of valor now.

Date: Tue May 26 1998 18:26
mozel (@Bully Beef) ID#153102:

It's worth thinking about that low POG means no inflation years ahead.

Date: Tue May 26 1998 18:21
mozel (@Bully Beef) ID#153102:

Krushchev said it.

But it turned out the serfs of West Side Gang conducted themselves better than those of the East Side Gang. So, they all get a good conduct medal and $trillions of debt.

Date: Tue May 26 1998 18:11
mozel (@Tolerant1) ID#153102:

Do you have a working definition for the word tyranny ?

Date: Tue May 26 1998 17:16
mozel (@POG) ID#153102:

POG is down today because the Demoncratic Socialists have begin dishoarding from guilt. Gold is selfish. No self-respecting socialist should get near it and no self-respecting socialist government would allow its extraction.

Have the CB's lost control of POG ? Will the Demoncratic Socialists make it disappear from public view by going through the floor instead of through the roof as goldbugs supposed ? Will there soon be nothing in the world of any currency value except $US greenback ? Stay tuned for further developments.

Date: Tue May 26 1998 15:45
mozel (@Lock & Load) ID#153102:

The reason for the gloom at Kitco is that it is frequented mostly by gold commodity traders.

For forty years it was illegal for an American to own gold.

Forty years was long enough to interrupt the transmission of cultural knowledge from generation to generation. The old folks might say gold is money, but what do they know ?

During the same period, the people lost the common law which had governed their parents and grandparents back to when this land was colonized. So, the old folks knowledge was rendered apparently obsolete in the eyes of the young. So the knowledge that gold is money was erased from the parole knowledge that is handed from generation to generation as the transmission of a people's culture.

The only Americans who still know gold is money are people who have more than the parole knowledge of history and culture. And many of them are not sure in their hearts because there is no validation that gold is money anywhere in the media or popular culture.

Date: Tue May 26 1998 14:36
mozel (@Law, Politics, & Gold) ID#153102:

For gold commodity traders, law and politics are off topic.

For gold money traders, law and politics are on topic.

A word to the wise on Y2K. If you are in America and your plans do not include an assessment of government actions, you are betting hard against history. Every emergency in the history of this nation has been used by the Executive to increase federal power. Every such power grab has been ratified with a Bill of indemnity by Congress. If you think Y2K is going to occasion an emergency, then you must also calculate the overwhelming probability that the federal government will use that emergency for its own purposes. What FEMA will do in Y2K is odds on much more important to plan for than civil disturbance.

In America 1. Every financial asset is a derivative of the fiat greenback. 2. A genuine public-private partnership has got to involve financial assets.

At some point in the next two years every financial asset in the world is going to be more a creature of law and politics than of economics.

Date: Tue May 26 1998 10:58
mozel (@Gianni) ID#153102:

Experimentation or diddling with the water is legal. You can read all about it in Title 50 of the United States Code. In an official emergency, pretty much anything goes.

And, yes, the Usurer always does an overall cost/benefit analysis on the effect of something on the collateral before underwriting the propaganda campaign.

We are supposed to focus on Gold, but for forty years because of politics, you could not even legally own gold in America. Go figure.

Date: Mon May 25 1998 22:17
mozel (@Rising Sun) ID#153102:

The cultural destruction of my country. The destruction of those immature ideals that were at the core of our culture. They are not dead in the hearts of all of the people, but they are dead in the mouths of the politicians and in the regulations of the agencies they endlessly spawn.

I think whether or not a person credits the possibility of FEMA Y2k happening depends entirely on whether or not they understand the OKC bombing was a federal operation.

Date: Mon May 25 1998 21:58
mozel (@Gungadin) ID#153102:

What you overlook is the power FEMA will have when Clinton signs the authorization. It can commandeer any government asset that is working.

So what if DOD is snarled. That just further guarantees there will be no possibility of co-ordinated opposition by the uniformed military.

EBT is working now. It's new. And I wager it is going to have no Y2K problem.

If you think FEMA was created to help civilians after natural disasters, you are swallowing the Trojan Horse.

Date: Mon May 25 1998 21:47
mozel (@crossbow) ID#153102:

It's a painful realization.

Well, Cape Town is highly recommended.

Costa Rica welcomes Americans.

Granada is out of the way.

Argentina is huge in area, rich in resources, and has many european immigrant groups. An American colony could exist there alongside the others.

Date: Mon May 25 1998 21:05
mozel (@EJ) ID#153102:

In the moment of silence after the lights go out in Y2K, remember when.

In the moment of silence before you board the FEMA bus, remember when.

In the moment of silence after they seize you car for failure to pass the new emissions test, remember when.

In the moment of silence after you answer the door and are told your house will be inspected for violations, remember when.

In the moment of silence after you read the IRS notice telling you that have found the unreported income you were saving for a vacation, remember when.

In the moment of silence after you hold your tongue from saying the newly forbidden thing, remember when.

In the moment of silence after you realize they are armed and dangerous and without any immature ideals and you are undefended and defenceless, remember when.

Date: Mon May 25 1998 18:30
mozel (@Moments of Silence) ID#153102:

I'd rather have my kith and kin who died for immature ideals, in vain, overseas here to tend his lonesome mother than all the moments of silence of all the EJ's in the USA.

Date: Mon May 25 1998 18:21
mozel (@robnoel) ID#153102:

You make the sound of bagpipes into a kind of a whisky for the ears.

Date: Mon May 25 1998 18:09
mozel (@Allen) ID#153102:

Yes, we honor their illusions.

The people pay for the sins they allow their leaders to do.

I think there is Bible on that.

Did you happen to read the post about the two nations that have been forced to accept the world's debt ?

Date: Mon May 25 1998 17:50
mozel (@sam @robnoel) ID#153102:

Yeah, I don't think this "The Gun had a mind of its own" defense is going to hold up at trial either.

robnoel Mystic sentiments; reminds me of bagpipes playing.

Date: Mon May 25 1998 17:35
mozel (@selby) ID#153102:

Just wait til you find out what Clinton has got in store for you.

Canadians are screwed, screwed, screwed.

Date: Mon May 25 1998 17:23
mozel (@Robnoel) ID#153102:

What is today all about ?

People who were maimed and killed for immature ideals that most Americans don't even believe in any more ?

What a crock.

The last two American Revolutions were done at the top and the next will be also.

Date: Mon May 25 1998 17:05
mozel (@Rack) ID#153102:

FEMA may be a joke to you, but I am more than a little sure they are going to have the last laugh.

Date: Mon May 25 1998 16:53
mozel (@Immature) ID#153102:

This "ideals of the Founders are immature" mantra is going to play in Peoria, I predict.

"To me, the irony of all of this is that as Americans we get to enjoy our immature fantacy of self-defense and free life without government because our government is so liberal. In the past and present in many countries, and in a possible future in the US, in less liberal times, if you represent an group that openly challenges the right to protect law and order that the community has vested in their government, in a less prosperous and happy time when the community values the safety of order more than the safety of civil liberties, the government will go after you and destroy you without negotiation or fanfare, and your neighbors will roast weenies on the embers of your club house."

Hardcase, Squirrel, Robnoel, Tolerant1... don't build no clubhouse. 'cause your right to self-defense is immature and the EJ's will roast weenies over the embers of your Waco.

If you boys have any respect for ol' JohnD's trading savvy, you might want to give a little heed to the old confederate's political savvy, too.

Date: Mon May 25 1998 16:34
mozel (@George) ID#153102:

Never thought about that ideals for an immature mind quite that way before. But, you know, you may have something there. Looks like America is all grown up now and don't need them immature ideals no more. Seems to me they quoted Clinton saying something very much like that.

Date: Mon May 25 1998 16:20
mozel (@aurator) ID#153102:

Does this mean we can use auratorville as a staging point for The Big Push ?

You broke a lot of hearts in Texas, feller.

Date: Mon May 25 1998 16:00
mozel (@Hardcase) ID#153102:

Clinton and FEMA are three steps ahead of you and lengthening their lead.

Date: Mon May 25 1998 15:32
mozel (@RJ) ID#153102:

You could be published on USA Gold if you wanted to. Relax.

Read HST.

Fantasize about Afghan and Viet freedom fighters in North America.


Go Platinum. Make car go. FEMA bus, too.

The only thing that's going to kill the parasites is if enough hosts just get up and leave while they can.

Date: Mon May 25 1998 15:24
mozel (@Squirrel) ID#153102:

When will we know we are in the corner ?

Date: Mon May 25 1998 14:41
mozel (@Next) ID#153102:

FEMA had facilities all over this country, staffed, ready, and waiting to be filled with non-conformists. And when they are inside wearing the label of terrorist and without access to a writ of habeas corpus, they will work for Federal Prisons, Inc. or they won't eat.

Date: Mon May 25 1998 13:19
mozel (@Rack) ID#153102:

The federal establishment is on record. They want your gun. The second amendment has been whittled down. If it meant anything to them, it would be intact. When they create the opportunity to disarm you, they are going to do it. And Y2K is the perfect opportunity in which they will be able to create yet more opportunity. All you will be allowed to carry on the FEMA bus will be one suitcase.

Date: Mon May 25 1998 11:29
mozel (@FEMA Y2K) ID#153102:

If you are an American and you don't want to live in a socialist hellhole, you must open your eyes and face a prospect which once was unthinkable.

It is going to be a piece of cake for federal sabateurs to maintain a permanent state of emergency during and after Y2K. If they could blow up the federal building in OKC when all systems were functioning and get away with it as they did, one hundred trained men centrally co-ordinated can keep this place staggering indefinitely. And those men are already in place. The same people who found and recruited them have been finding and recruiting people to do dirty deeds overseas for fifty years. They have it down to a science. They have honed their knowledge of the appropriate personality and background profiles. The disruption will all be attributed to either the Y2K bug or to "terrorists". Networks, which are centrally managed, are most easily sabotaged from the central location. When FEMA is in charge of the electric grid, they can implement rolling outages and noone will be the wiser. The media will dutifully report what they have been told officially. After people have been freezing in the dark for a while and hungry, they will be glad to get on a nice, warm FEMA bus to be taken to shelter and a warm meal. After people have been uprooted from their homes and personal resources, they will be totally dependant on their savior-custodians. The people doing this rounding up will actually think they are doing a sharing, caring thing. If you owned a gun ( or gold ) when you left home, it will not be there when you get back.

Perhaps this will sound less farfetched if you consider the United States Government has no way out of the financial cul de sac into which it has spent itself since FDR declared a bank holiday. How do you tell people that decades of their labor was stored in financial assets which are fraudulent and worthless ? You don't. The facade of "capitalism" which has been wearing thinner and thinner with each passing decade will be in tatters in Y2K and will have to be replaced with something else. That something else is going to be the "genuine public-private partnership" which Clinton has been speaking to the troops about and which FEMA has been preparing to implement according to its mission statements. If you imagine the patriots in the standing Army is going to prevent this, you are betting against history. They didn't stop Lincoln; they didn't stop FDR; they won't stop CLinton. He is the Commander In Chief. And those that don't fit in will be out.

Those who think socialism is about sharing and caring are deluded. Sharing and caring are individual acts motivated by charity. Socialism is a system.

If you read Alberich's comments about America, you are privy to some unblinkered observations. In the seventy years since FDR this nation has lost its core of shared ideals, its common law, its true history, and its way and has learned how to take orders. The military model of organization is, of course, the same model of organization of a socialist system. And that is why in an air of emergency and crisis, this new system of a "genuine public-private partnership" will be accepted without much fuss. A school system that demands that youngsters adapt to being regimented, many veterans and reservists in the population, and thirty years of martial and administrative law have set the stage. It will only be much later that people realize that what they thought was going to be temporary has, in fact, been made permanent. Eventually, they will tire of the regimentation, but it will be too late. Those that don't close ranks and stay in step will be dealt with. People who pin their hopes on rural populations don't understand numbers, air mobility, or firepower. And emergency and crisis can always be extended by another foreign war. Over the course of time, any idealism remaining will be corroded. In the end, the USA will resemble the Russia of today, a shabby, crumpled empire.

You may be one of those who has hung on to the old dream of the original America, one of those who hoped things you knew were going in the wrong direction would someday be set right. If you are, don't delude yourself that you can prevent what is going to happen. Organizing to resist will just get you arrested for conspiracy today. Future resistance will just give credibility to the official propaganda. A revolution from the top is truly irresistible by the people. Perhaps Napoleon was the originator. But, Lincoln set the pattern in America. FDR emulated him. FDR is Clinon's hero. If you are not going to fit in, get out. He who knows when to run away lives to fight another day. Gold is portable.

Date: Mon May 25 1998 09:33
mozel (@Strong ? Greenback) ID#153102:

33. American firms pay twice as much to borrow money and make new investments as do their foreign counterparts. ( U.S. News and World Report )

Usury inexorably eats away the substance. 10 for 11; 10 for 11.

Date: Mon May 25 1998 03:10
mozel (@downunder) ID#153102:

Yeah ? Well, there will always be some form of murder, too. That doesn't mean to me that there should be no law forbidding it and no punishment of violators who are convicted. Usury is prohibited in the common law. It was simple. The law would not collect a debt of usury.

Date: Mon May 25 1998 02:59
mozel (@downunder) ID#153102:

Usury is the common denominator whenever wealth concentrates in the hands of the privileged few whatever the local name for the politics might be.

Date: Mon May 25 1998 02:46
mozel (@Squirrel) ID#153102:

It would be prudent to think this Y2K thing through.

They ain't gonna leave nobody alone.

They are gonna' FEMA the country and the countryside.

I'm thinkin' if Moses don't show up soon, I'm going on without him.

Date: Mon May 25 1998 02:39
mozel (@Lurker700) ID#153102:

Yours makes as much sense to me as Veneroso's explanation.

Date: Mon May 25 1998 02:30
mozel (@downunder) ID#153102:

None. I oppose running societies, people, and countries with systems or governments. There is no need for any Public Law and all Public Law infringes on somebody's freedom of conscience, liberty, or property. All you need for security of rights is a national defense of units of armed citizen soldiers organized and commanded at the local level and courts of justice for adjudicating disputes and torts and crimes according to the rules of the common law. Government is not needed even to issue money and, in fact, whenever it gets its hands on the power makes a botch of it.

Date: Mon May 25 1998 02:02
mozel (@I just wonder) ID#153102:

OK, it's July of the Year 2000. The stock market is closed for reasons that will become clear in a moment. Electric power is only available in certain sections of the country. People from the sections without power have been uprooted and moved to camps and into people's houses in the areas that do have power. Telephone use is restricted to essential calls. Most residential phone service has no dialtone. The internet is, of course, not there. Due to the collapse of the worlwide banking system, a decree went forth that retailers must accept EBT. There is a federal benefit category for every need. Applicants go to the FEMA office to have benefits approved and added to their account. Cash is in short supply. Withdrawals from accounts from the banks that are open and can find your account are strictly limited by FEMA decree. A dusk to dawn curfew is in effect nationwide. Fuel can only be purchased by EBT. Only essential travel needs are rationed fuel by FEMA. There is an air of crisis concerning the planting and harvesting of crops.

The President and Congress jointly announce that because of the displacement of voters from their voting districts, no election will be held in 2000. But, they expect an election will be held in 2004 when, hopefully, life in the country will have returned to normal and confidence is restored.

What will happen ?

Date: Mon May 25 1998 01:39
mozel (@downunder) ID#153102:

I only asked because I heard they collected your weapons recently and the 'Stralians I encounter seem complely oblivious to the fact the demoncratic socialist form of government has eventally turned into dictatorship in every place it has existed.

Date: Mon May 25 1998 01:27
mozel (@downunder) ID#153102:

When do you think 'stralians will grow up ?

Date: Mon May 25 1998 01:23
mozel (@gagnrad) ID#153102:

I appreciate your posting.

Not speaking to your specific "program", but the abuse of power by social service and police agencies is widespread. The specifics boil the blood.

Date: Mon May 25 1998 01:11
mozel (@Changes) ID#153102:

Watching the POG seems like misplaced energy to me. Others may enough excess energy to spend on it, but, unfortunately or not, I don't have much.

The reason it seems misplaced energy is because it may prevent a participant from properly weighing risk. We are accustomed to relatively limited risk scenarios because there are many constants in the financial and economic and political environment that we take for granted. There has been a long period of relative stability which lulls one into complacency. But I see signs.

The US is going down soon under a Wave of Debt & Usurious Interest, public and private. Y2K may precipitate it. The loss of reserve currency status for $US greenback may precipitate it. Derivatives runaway may precipitate it. But it is coming as sure as night follows day.

Think for a moment about the fact there is no difference whatsoever between Food Stamp Legal Tender and FRN Legal Tender. There is no difference whatsoever between EBT ( electronic benefits transfer ) and EFT ( electronic funds transfer ) . The fact is that all of our financial assets which were supposed to store wealth are fraudulent. Years and years of labor have been stolen by the demoncratic socialist regime established by FDR. Any labor not stored in a tangible asset is not safe. Any labor stored in a derivative of Debt is, well, just Debt.

Got Gold ?

Date: Mon May 25 1998 00:38
mozel (@Alberich) ID#153102:

Before WWI, it was widely known in America that modern war is for profit. But, that knowledge was submerged by propaganda and war fever. Now, the military-industrial complex which institutionalizes war for profit is an accepted part of the political landscape. For many years you would hear people say here that war is good for the economy. And they would recite how America did not come out of the Depression until WWII. In fact, the same was true in Germany where Hitler's armaments budget was driving the country to a financial crisis which was submerged by the invasion of Poland. So, there is something to observations that point out the role of industrialists in fomenting war.

But, I think you would add to your understanding a great deal if you would read FA Hayek's Road To Serfdom. There is power in ideas and ideals that money cannot buy.

Date: Mon May 25 1998 00:07
mozel (@ROR) ID#153102:

You Wrote: "Traditional US conservatism is in fact anti freedom and anti family FOR WHAT IT DOES. No argument except from monied interests."

It's true. But a rehash of FDR's National Socialist Plan is not the way to more freedom and economic justice. An end to usury by the Government and by Banks and other Corporations is the path to a way of life in which all persons who work have a life of dignity and security.

Bureauracy and standing armies and usurious Bankers ride on the backs of the people at large and over time devour the wealth of a nation. It is usury and not free enterprise which concentrates wealth in the hands of a privileged few.

A government with the aim of distributing wealth more justly according to some platform does so by coercion. It brings the people who have the least scruples about using coercion for political ends to the top. These are the worst sort of people and in the end they make the worst sort of governors. The plan for distribution of wealth will not work if people are allowed to stir up dissent against it. So freedom and forced distribution of wealth cannot exist together for very long. You cannot look at the history of Europe of the last fifty years as a guide. Look at the history of the first fifty years of this century to see the true face and true inevitable course of what you call demoncratic socialism. The old word for it was fascism.

Date: Sun May 24 1998 23:48
mozel (@Prometheus) ID#153102:

I never knew ye. Heart to heart. Death to tyrants.

Date: Sun May 24 1998 22:45
mozel (@ROR @Promo) ID#153102:

All I can say is ( add sarcasm here ) thank God for Democratic Socialist Europe and Democratic Socialist downunder, else we would have this internet at all.

@Promo They are plotting at the top. This "genuine public-private partnership" through FEMA is no bluff and no delusion. I have seen tears spring from the eyes of young people at the realization of the vast gap between the gurantee and the reality of liberty in America. Nothing is going in the right direction, you child's studies excepted.

Date: Sun May 24 1998 22:25
mozel (@ROR) ID#153102:

The US is going down the drain soon because it is a Democratic Socialist country. It cloned itself in Europe when the place was rubble after WWII.

When the center pole of this Democratic Socialist tent breaks, the whole F*ing tent is coming down and Europe will revert to its old ways. The whole F*ing world has been riding on the coattails of the US middle class and it is about stripped bare from taxation to pay usury and devaluation to maintain the appearance of expansion.

Date: Sun May 24 1998 22:06
mozel (@Earl) ID#153102:

Who has the f8ing right to call himself King ?

Piss on him.

Date: Sun May 24 1998 22:03
mozel (@ROR) ID#153102:

A benevolent dictatorship with all your rights and liberties preserved.

Those are exactly the words used by Congressman Fish of New York to describe the New Deal of FDR.

Democratic Socialism is Nazi and if people resist it, they are sent off for re-education in a concentration camp.

The label that belongs on you is a Bull's Eye.

Date: Sun May 24 1998 21:56
mozel (@Earl) ID#153102:

You are wrong about the common law. If there is a known robber in the neighborhood, you can kill him on sight.

His associates are considered accessories.

Date: Sun May 24 1998 21:51
mozel (@Earl) ID#153102:

If you get your nose candy through the cop and social worker network I can restore your benefits. Just bring a note from your parents to school.

Hell if I know what is EBM ? EBT is Electronic Benefits Transfer. Posted on it earlier.

Date: Sun May 24 1998 21:47
mozel (@Earl) ID#153102:

Why is it against the law to kill socialists ? They are preparing to form a pack to come and rob you and chain you up if you don't follow their rules. Why do you have to wait til they get organized ?

Date: Sun May 24 1998 21:41
mozel (@ROR is F*ing LaRouche in Drag) ID#153102:

Date: Sun May 24 1998 21:39
mozel (@Earl) ID#153102:

Your EBT medical privileges are suspended for anti-social attitudes.

Clean up your act or your EBT food allotment will be reduced.

Did you read what Alberich said about he can't figure out what unifies Americans. He's observant. The only thing holding this place together is martial law. The guts is gone.

What was that novel that started out with the text of Big Rock Candy Mountain ?

Date: Sun May 24 1998 16:36
mozel (@Gianni) ID#153102:

Thanks for the posts. Maybe Selby will give me "remote learning credits" on the subject of socialism and it will improve my image.

Date: Sun May 24 1998 15:31
mozel (@Selby) ID#153102:

All good salesmen start by asking questions and denying they are selling anything.

Wing this, wing that hardly matters if it's a socialist bird.

I think your demonstrator is broken.

Date: Sun May 24 1998 15:19
mozel (@Research) ID#153102:

There is a Emergency Management Administration counterpart to the Federal in every State.

If somebody could dig out the Executive Orders on FEMA, I believe it would help us all plan for Y2K.

I can't get squat out of the WH link.

Date: Sun May 24 1998 15:07
mozel (@Gianni @selby @Steve) ID#153102:

Gianni They could tatoo digits or a bar code. But, wouldn't it be an ostentatious display of their power ?

Selby; In selling the advantages of full press socialism, maybe you should undertake a smiling face or beautiful female or paunchless male index or something. How about "Our Alfred E, Newman's Live Longer and don't fart as much."

@Steve Everything is under control, ultimately. Here are the real risk managers: "We also recognized that our mission to reduce the loss of life and property included protecting the Nation's institutions from all natural and man-made hazards. FEMA consequently began to direct efforts towards creating an agency that would restore the confidence of the American people and fulfill President Clinton's promise to "be there" when America needed us."

A derivative is just a man-made hazard.

Date: Sun May 24 1998 14:20
mozel (@selby) ID#153102:

No. Have travelled. Could I come to Canada and mooch on EBT ?

Date: Sun May 24 1998 14:15
mozel (@FEMA) ID#153102:

The only part of this Y2K coup that I foresee at the federal level which I can't figure out is how Clinton will stay in the Office of President despite the Constitutional prohibition.

One thread of clues is in the Executive Orders that are extant on FEMA. Because as I recall, there is a reference there to bringing key "private" players into the FEMA shadow government. This then tracks very well with the speech to the boy-Farraguts regarding the coming "genuine public-private partnership". I think the latest Executive Orders on FEMA will fill in the blanks.

Date: Sun May 24 1998 13:39
mozel (@Mental Boundaries) ID#153102:

The idea that government ought to run the economy is the only idea with currency. Probably 98% of the population is mentally socialist. Everyone talks in terms of Labor versus Capital even though there is no capital in circulation and all of the capitalists were wiped out by FDR. What people mean by capital is Corporation. The illusion is that the Corporation is private and capitalist. The reality is the Corporation is a creature of government and of The Bank, another creature of government.

One the one hand you have government and its creatures and on the other you have the governed. Those in the fold of government and its favored creatures are privileged by law; those outside the fold are not. The social safety net is when everyone is inside the fold.

In the 1920's the bank was the temple of commerce in America. Literally. Go look at some of the old bank buildings from that period. They look like classical Greek or Roman temples. They have porticos, fluted colums, the whole works. I could go on at length. So, when the banks failed in the 1930's, popular faith in capitalism failed, too.

What happened in America from 1860 to 1920 was the gradual introduction of usury into commerce. More and more wealth accummulated in the pockets of the usurers. The temple became grander and more ornate. Commerce became more dependent on bank loans. Farmers especially were bankrupted by the usury in the banking system. Go have a look at the defaulted loans from the 1920's and 1930's and you will see an enormous number were for farm implements. Modern tools for farming. It was the story of the Babylonian farmer all over again.

So, really there is nowhere for things to go but further into government organization of the economy and society. People have no other idea to work with. All the dispute is over what government should do; there is no dispute about its doing whatever is necessary. But, the facade of private ownership is useful to government because it is the spawning place for all sorts of distracting disputes that prevent people from seeing the real issues clearly. It's difficult for me to foresee the next stage of the developing "public-private partnership" in America, but I am beginning to think I dismissed the notion of "Social Security investment" in corporation stock too quickly.

Date: Sun May 24 1998 13:02
mozel (@Let's Fight About It) ID#153102:

Management and Capital think Labor is the Foe. Labor thinks Management and Capital are the Foe. Meanwhile, Usury devours them all.

Date: Sun May 24 1998 12:54
mozel (@Why Low Wage Jobs Go Begging) ID#153102:

Teenagers are compelled to go to school so they cannot work to support the family unit.

Date: Sun May 24 1998 12:51
mozel (@Why Low Wage Jobs Go Begging) ID#153102:


Date: Sun May 24 1998 12:12
mozel (@Can You Say Ready To Roll ?) ID#153102:

1. What is Electronic Benefit Transfer?

Electronic Benefit Transfer ( EBT ) is an electronic system that allows a client to authorize transfer of their government benefits from a Federal account to a retailer account to pay for products received. EBT is currently being used in many States to issue food stamp and other benefits. About 20 percent of food stamp benefits are currently being issued by EBT.

2. How does EBT work?

Under the EBT system, food stamp consumers apply for their benefits in the usual way, by filling out a form at their local food stamp office. Once eligibility and level of benefits have been determined, an account is established in the participant's name, and food stamp benefits are deposited electronically in the account each month. A plastic card, similar to a bank card, is issued and a personal identification number ( PIN ) is assigned or chosen by the client to give access to the account.

Clients are offered the opportunity to change the PIN number at any time, and are offered ongoing training if they have any problems accessing the system.

Date: Sun May 24 1998 00:22
mozel (@Erle) ID#153102:

Wise guy. Too many nostalgic moments associated with that phrase. Cold barns. Fires in 45 Gal drums. Whispered oaths. You're taking me back to those old days.

Date: Sat May 23 1998 23:53
mozel (@Erle) ID#153102:

Do you think now is a good time to hit Caper up for a loan ?

Date: Sat May 23 1998 23:23
mozel (@crazytimes @Squirrel) ID#153102:

I think so. The more government plans and schedules and demands, the less the individual can plan and schedule and call their own. So, I think people suffer mentally and emotionally from this sense of having no control over their lives. Some people just snap before they're doped down.

@Squirrel The story about the Japanese manufacturers brings out what I hate and despise most about socialism: the fact it manipulates mankind's social nature for the evil, selfish ends of the elite.

Date: Sat May 23 1998 22:40
mozel (@Squirrel) ID#153102:

Air pressure detonators on the charges on the building columns.

Squirrel, I notice Soros and Stallone are headed to Argentina. Peso is tied to $US. Tied together, burn together, I'd say.

If you happen to go by there, tidy up those confederate graves and leave some flowers if you can.

Date: Sat May 23 1998 22:34
mozel (@Caper) ID#153102:

It's not like its hidden or concealed. It's not like people have not talked. You imagine difficulties that are not there when the right people are taking cues from the right people.

It's just not officially seen or acknowledged.

Date: Sat May 23 1998 22:23
mozel (@crazytimes) ID#153102:

All this SS blah blah is what is known as a diversion.

They are just as likely to buy the DOW with Food Stamps.

Date: Sat May 23 1998 22:14
mozel (@Caper) ID#153102:

Cordon the site, which they did.

Raze the evidence, which they did.

Date: Sat May 23 1998 21:34
mozel (@Caper) ID#153102:

Damned if I know my motive.

Composing clarifies for the composer.

Just connecting the dots as I see 'em.

Date: Sat May 23 1998 20:59
mozel (@When Did A Socialist Ever Come To Share ?) ID#153102:

When he has surplus from taking from somebody else.

Date: Sat May 23 1998 20:54
mozel (@Tolerant1) ID#153102:

Friend, an islet of succor in the midst of chaos is THE PLAN.

Canadians are screwed, screwed, screwed. Socialism rules the Kingdom of the Grasping Grasshoppers.

Date: Sat May 23 1998 20:44
mozel (@G-Nutz @Donald) ID#153102:

Carpe Diem.

@Donald Gee, "Welfare" sounds like the beginnings of a genuine prublic-private partnership. I see the Federal Benefit Credit Cards are operational almost everywhere NOW.

Date: Sat May 23 1998 20:29
mozel (@Squirrel) ID#153102:

Validation ? Try physics.

Date: Sat May 23 1998 20:10
mozel (@The Bank) ID#153102:

In 1929 no one considered the greenback to be a fiat currency. It had gold behind it. FDR told us so.

But now what is cash is more ambiguous.

Pondering the difference between Food Stamp Legal Tender and Federal Reserve Note for Nothing Legal Tender, I arrived at the fact there is no debt attached to Food Stamp Legal Tender. There is no FDIC attached to Food Stamp Legal Tender. It is a new currency waiting to step in should the FRN Legal Tender falter for a while. Or altogether.

My unruly mind also recalls that Congress has enacted legislation which will convert food stamp and other federal benefit outlays into electronic form and issue Benefit Credit Cards in the near future. I'm sure Donald could find an article.

Which leads me to a workable vision of how the genueine public-private partnership could compensate participants in the depths of Y2k. So long as The Bank is functioning well enough to disburse credits. And believe me, it will be.

Date: Sat May 23 1998 19:30
mozel (@deflation) ID#153102:

No debt currency can survive contraction. When the constant infusion of new blood from expansion is withheld, the parasite of usury consumes the host.

Date: Sat May 23 1998 19:10
mozel (@The 5% @To Each His Own) ID#153102:

RJ posts platinum outperforms gold 95% to 5% according to his records.

ANOTHER posts all paper may burn.

So, suppose RJ is right 95% of the time and ANOTHER is right 5% of the time. It works out as I see it that eventually followers of RJ are going to have NOTHING. The only question is timing.

I can see no better set of cirumstances for the establishment of a "genuine public-private partnership" in the United States that the circumstances which would prevail after all paper assets were devalued to NOTHING. Pensions gone. Savings gone. Security gone. And still the taxman cometh. Food stamps, the other legal tender, could be the surviving legal tender.

I look at the rubble of the OKC building and I see a pattern which required high explosive charges on the columns inside the building. Required. I refuse to rationalize away the evidence.

I review the reports of official unreadiness for Y2K and I recall that in politics, nothing ever happens by accident. I look outside the country at the gold trading part of the world making monetary and trading arrangments and I look inside the country at the sheeple and in my mind's eye I see high ambition perceives opportunity.

Hunter S. Thompson is right, of course. It is all personal. But, the System wants you to be objective, so you yourself deny your own life, your own liberty. You have to believe the media and legal fictions over the evidence of your own mind and senses in order to conform and be considered worth having around. When they started to say, "America, love it or leave it", you had the System's bottom line. Well, this, too, is nothing new. There is a confederate cemetary in Argentina where heroic friends of liberty rest, who were before they died, no longer welcome in the land of their birth.

Date: Sat May 23 1998 18:21
mozel (@Alberich) ID#153102:

You can tell who thinks whom allies with by what they publish about each other, but that's about all, as I see it.

Date: Sat May 23 1998 17:12
mozel (@Judy Shelton) ID#153102:

Is so naive pains from sympathetic compassion torment me when I read her earnest thoughts.

Date: Sat May 23 1998 15:21
mozel (@Cycles) ID#153102:

The Liberty Cycle in the United States of America

1790-1860 70 Years:: Going

1860-1930 70 Years:: Going

1930-2000 70 years:: Gone.

Date: Sat May 23 1998 15:01
mozel (@Alberich) ID#153102:

You have LaRouche pegged. He's slick like Willie though.

He plays those strings: Nationalism and socialism.

Date: Sat May 23 1998 09:49
mozel (@Exodus) ID#153102:

Clinton has been wise to this Y2K problem longer than anybody on Kitco. You can infer from his speech to the boy-Farraguts that he intends to use this occasion to really run the country the way it ought to be run. A public-private partnership means everybody is working for the government which is itself dedicated to collecting usury for The Bank. The average sports fan is going to believe 'mericuh is under attack when Y2K starts interfering with his game watching. Another segment of the better informed will know the true cause , but support the government's "response" as being "best for society". Probably during the "crisis" everyone will be getting all their news over the radio in fireside chats just like during FDR's glory days. One Voice; One View; One People. If the phrase 'five year plan' doesn't eventually re-appear, it will surprise me.

If you think it can't be pulled off, I think you are blind. I'm looking at a photo of the OKC fed building. Federal apparatchks blew it up for Clinton. The evidence is undeniable. It's physical evidence for crying out loud. But, the bottom line is they got away with it. They got "anti-terrorist" legislation enacted. They got the power. Read Clinton's speech to the Navy cadets again. He's got the legal cover; he's got the playbook written; he's setting up.

I just have to laugh at the dialogue between Bully Beef and Caper and Selby's PC twitters. Canadians are screwed, screwed, screwed. Caper says there is no war on drugs. I guess the casualties in American families whose males are in the federal gulag don't count. I like that phrase "meanness in government". Just what kind of people do you suppose it requires to intimidate people into coughing up for free brain surgery for all and conforming to PC ? Public servants ? If you want to see the future for these so-called Western Demoncracies, look at Russia. You know, Stalin did a lot for the underprivileged and exploited there. And opinion was pretty uniform, too.

I figure about 2% of the adult American population truly does not want to be civilian soldiers for socialism. The remainder are either socialist activists or Frostriches. Even supposedly smart people who might even vote Republican just cannot let go of Social Security "because I paid into it." They just don't get it that every time you use your social security number you are declaring your intent to go on welfare. The Bank owns them. They have delusions of Independence. But, the judge that will judge them on behalf of The Bank has no such delusions.

If there is anything in this world that utterly defies logic, it is American military people and Canadian socialists buying gold.

Throughout nature, if you did a poll of parasites, I'm pretty sure they would all agree their hosts are doing fine. The funny thing is nobody in government or retired from government feels like a parasite. But, boy, look at the reaction when the host tries to reject them.

Squirrel, there is no way they are going to leave you alone on this continent. Following your plan would just create a sweet spot which would attract informants and media propaganda opportunists like honey is said to attract bears. Well, then the sweet spot would become a hot spot attracting the living dead in law-enforcement looking for another stripe.

Exodus means getting out. Believe me, they won't miss us.

Date: Sat May 23 1998 02:33
mozel (@6Pak @Earl @Steve) ID#153102:

The proper name for the industry you posted about is The Law-Enforcement Industry.

Socialism is the movement which aims to organize society using the force of law and government. You know, the tax and tell thy neighbor how to live his life crowd. It is a mass mental illness. In America, we have highly specialized socialists, otherwise known as Lifestyle Nazis. There 's a spearate 501 3c organization of them dedicated to prohibiting every pleasure God gave to mankind. I think they learned a lot on tourist trips to Canada, but maybe it was vice versa. The Brits carry the disease everywhere they go.

Earl Saw somebody paying with this stuff at the grocey. It looked more like Real Money than the greenbacks. It was food stamps. That's legal tender, too, you know.

Steve They are keeping the legal significance of martial flags in courtrooms a secret. All we know so far is what it is not. What it is, they won't tell.

Date: Sat May 23 1998 02:08
mozel (@Squirrel) ID#153102:

Where is the Moses to lead the exodus of the people in this country who want freedom ? I'm ready to go. If we spent half as much energy getting together to migrate in concert as we do talking sense to people who don't give a damn, we would already be gone. My forebearers came here looking for freedom and if that stuff ain't allowed to grow here any more, why stay ?

Date: Sat May 23 1998 02:00
mozel (@Earl) ID#153102:

That example is typical of what attorneys have done across the board. Never forget they work for The Bank. The whole damned government works for The Bank and has done prospectively since Lincoln and actually since FDR. Who is pulling the strings has just become progressively less concealed as they have tightened their grip on the victim's throat. In 1913 they came out into the open to enact the Federal Reserve Act. They are out in the open again on bank signature cards.

Date: Sat May 23 1998 01:43
mozel (@Earl) ID#153102:

"Take not the counsel of your fears."

Date: Sat May 23 1998 01:36
mozel (@Earl) ID#153102:

Gosh, Earl, next thing you know you will read that "Collection of taxes is a common law action at debt" and really get interested in learning how they do what they do by law.

Then you might go read your deed and notice the attorney wrote it to say "for $10.00 and other consideration" and realize it was so done as not to fall within the ambit of the Seventh Amendment, to deny you the protection of the common law and the common law jury, in other words.

And then when you find out what Congress did to the rules of judicial procedure from the 1920's onward and consider the protection of that last part of the Seventh Amendment which has been abrogated, you may really be unable to let go of the thread. You may start gathering enough of it to make a hanging rope.

The foundation of freedom, of which I post, stands on more than the Seventh Amendment, but the guarantees in that Amendment were meant to be a bar to the destruction of the foundation.

Date: Sat May 23 1998 00:09
mozel (@Steve_In_TO) ID#153102:

I think you Canadians are screwed. Canadians who are not socialists are more pitiable than Americans who are not friends of government according to "public policy" ( i.e. Mob Rule ) .

I thought Caper's post about RCMP and Revenue Canada were on the trend line. But, what nobody seems to grasp in either America or Canada is that the true party of interest in revenue collection and most police work is The Bank.

Date: Fri May 22 1998 23:51
mozel (Rob) ID#153102:

How could Gold and SIlver Leasing be the same as a Gold Bond ?

Why would anybody take a Gold Bond from the USG ? It has cast aside every covenant it ever made regarding gold. The USG's failure to honor promises to pay in gold is one of the constants in this world. You can count on USG to lie about gold redemption. I think that's all you can count on it doing.

Date: Fri May 22 1998 23:42
mozel (@selby) ID#153102:

Who is this bomber pilot six year old you are obsessing over ?

Date: Fri May 22 1998 23:03
mozel (@Rob) ID#153102:

So, I guess you could say socialist lying and cheating is "public policy" of the United States Government. I would agree with you if you did.

I wonder who's buying the Gold Bond Lie now ?

Date: Fri May 22 1998 22:56
mozel (@selby) ID#153102:

If Evolution intended for socialists to fly, it would have given them wings like birds and not merely a bird brain.

Date: Fri May 22 1998 18:42
mozel (@selby) ID#153102:

Six year olds make the very best driving instructors simply because they are too young to have learned any bad habits.

Date: Fri May 22 1998 18:37
mozel (@What Is A Gold Bond ?) ID#153102:

Does the buyer/lender receive gold when the bond is due ?

What is the buyer/lender lending ? Paper ? That's a good deal, I think. To lend paper and receive gold someday.

Or does the buyer/lender receive gold if the borrower defaults on payment of interest ?

Questions, questions, questions; but nothing but pablum for answers.

Nobody has ever audited the Federal Reserve System that I know of.

Nobody has ever audited the Treasury Department that I know of.

Nobody has ever audited IMF or World Bank that I know of.

Transparency is for poor people.

The reason we know the Japanese are not poor just quite yet is that nobody has ever audited the Bank of Japan that I know of.

Date: Fri May 22 1998 01:40
mozel ( ID#153102:

Date: Fri May 22 1998 01:27
mozel (@zeke) ID#153102:

Hmmm. Well, the jury judges the application of the law as well as the facts. Although a judge will no longer say so, it was said at the Supreme Court in better days.

Date: Fri May 22 1998 00:58
mozel (@zeke) ID#153102:

When you have a licensed marriage, that is a marriage whose status is created by government and not by freely consenting, mutually pledging man and woman under God, guess who decides for the family?

Date: Fri May 22 1998 00:35
mozel (@zeke) ID#153102:

"An interesting point. Sort of like: Legalism Breeds Contempt." Well, when a legislature enacts a statute that allows people to buy license, that is to buy the right to engage in unlawful conduct ( conduct contrary to the higher moral law revealed in Judeo-Christian scripture ) with legal sanction, that is contempt for law. You have to have a license to practice usury, for example.

"Since in the case where no license is required, no law can be broken."

Actually, no license is required now. People do not have to have anyone's permission to agree mututally to enter the status of marriage. Licenses are issued to those who want to buy license to break the law. By having the option of divorce. Where no license is available, the law cannot be violated without penalty.

"Operation then is by the spirit of the law rather than the letter of the law." I'm not sure what you mean.

Date: Fri May 22 1998 00:15
mozel (@Steve_in_TO) ID#153102:

For the benefit of bystanders I feel I must say in my opinion your Puerto Rico post oversimplified matters to the point of giving false information.

Date: Fri May 22 1998 00:08
mozel (@hologram @zeke) ID#153102:

The disappearance of that hologram says something about the state of affairs in Europe these days. One wonders whether or not it was officially disappeared for some reason. Such as not being accountable for the amount of currency in circulation at some time in the future.

@zeke While the topic is up, at common-law there was no divorce. Marriage licenses were introduced to allow people to do something unlawful legally. Believe it or not all licenses issued by any government under American law are likewise for the purpose of allowing the licensee to do some unlawful act or activity legally.

Date: Thu May 21 1998 23:50
mozel (@zeke) ID#153102:Under common-law the Father is the head and the authority. The government of common-law enforced the authority of the Father in the courts.

But, all that was overturned after the District of Columbia conquered and occupied the country and imposed martial law. I think there is a lot of respect for authority, just that it is compelled respect the brute authority of power and not taught respect for the uplifting authority of earthly law conformed to the higher moral law revealed by a loving God.

Date: Thu May 21 1998 23:27
mozel (@Gianni) ID#153102:

That's interesting. Puerto Rico has a mysterious legal relationship to the United States. I think the IRS operates out of Puerto Rico.

Date: Thu May 21 1998 23:04
mozel (@zeke) ID#153102:

Yes, government's war on the people is a war on the fathers. I guess my posts explaining the nature of martial law were lacking in clarity.

You wrote "A legal system has evolved which greatly profits from rampant divorce and then brutally emasculates the fathers."

I would simply amend that to read "An illegal system has evolved ..."

Date: Thu May 21 1998 22:55
mozel (@The Controllable & The Uncontrollable) ID#153102:

Disaster movies feature the uncontrollable as the ultimate villain. The asteroid or Godzilla come from nowhere to disrupt the serene routine of ultra-conventional life. No film maker ever shows those people who would be cheering for Godzilla because he distracts the State and Local police from predating on them.

The United States of America has been conquered and occupied by the District of Columbia for so long and so thoroughly that except in extreme circumstances nothing is uncontrollable by the puppet masters in the Federal Establishment. The uncontrollable is going to come from off shore.

What can't be controlled is payments. If people won't pay, the IMF just leaves town until someone comes along who will make them start paying again. Another uncontrollable is acceptance of greenbacks. But most of the world is as easily corrupted as were the State governments in the USA. Greenbacks for benefits like roads, dams, electrification are irresistible to poor nations. Even if usury is attached. So, by throwing greenbacks at the world, the USG has minimized the problem of acceptance. But, it is still an uncontrollable. People in the streets are uncontrollable. So, changes of government are incontrollable. Witness the fall of the Shah. Corruption is uncontrollable. Russia and Japan and dozens of other countries are proof of that. But, influence over corruption can be bought. Usually with only greenbacks.

As it happens it appears that risk in a floating rate currency milieu is uncontrollable. The uncontrollable risk of derivatives is symptom, not cause.

But there is nothing so uncontrollable as a deadline. That's not negotiable.

Date: Thu May 21 1998 22:03
mozel (@Bump Ta Bump @Squirrel) ID#153102:

I got an e-mail from Truth in Media about an ex-Navy officer named Lord who has written a Y2K book and is holding financial seminars for investors.

Y2K awareness is going to snowball from here. Kitco was earlier, but the news is spreading. I hold to my prediction of a movie release.

I think everyone who has gotten to the point of taking Y2K seriously would agree that their mentality has been changed by the process. Thinking through the possible consequences of Y2K leads toward more self-reliance. Emerson wrote a good essay on that topic that used to be taught to pre-Dependance Americans. I think panic will set in at the top.

In many places America is not the society it was. There are a great many Alec's of Clockwork Orange out there. They will predate.

@Squirrel I went through the same thoughts you posted here, but a while ago. If there were a way to migrate to a new Freeland, I would. Believe it or not, the best candidate location is Puerto Rico. Because with one referendum there, you could have sovereignty. But, there is no way I know of to coalesce the people you would want to meet there. You can be an expatriate like John D or you can work for the best and hope for the best where you were born.

Date: Thu May 21 1998 21:08
mozel (@gagnrad) ID#153102:

By any honest measure, the top down and bottom up failure modes have already been operating in America for some time.

They are the result of a government war on the people, a war having the aim to drive the people into debt, dependance, and ignorance.

I enjoyed the thoughts you shared, but I suggest that separating government and society in your thinking will yield additional insights.

Government acts by coercion. society is voluntary. Government presses your men into military service; society may or may not invite young men to the ball. Government is force; society is persuasuion.

Date: Thu May 21 1998 20:24
mozel (@MC WHY) ID#153102:

don't you stop drinking flouridated water. It might help.

Date: Thu May 21 1998 14:35
mozel (@Donald) ID#153102:

"Paper gold is easier to move around than gold itself." Hmm. Digits in accounts are easier to move around than paper itself. So, why is it so hard for some people to understand gold is moved around as digits in accounts, whether its paper gold or gold ?

Actually at the physical layer I can move $10,000 of gold around easier than $10,000 of paper when you consider $100 is the largest FRN usually available. And that's at today's "depressed price".

"A common means of removing fluoride residue from chemical processes, is to dose the fluoride-containing solution with Calcium ion, which precipitates the fluoride as a very insoluble particle, CaF2."

Where in the hell are those insoluble particles accumulating in my flesh " ? FYI I have seen reports EPA engineers say flouride in water is a pollutant. Just another Hah Hah from those earthly powers, the demi-gods of government.

The Euro's legal implications remind me of Y2K; either its No Problem or a pending big disruption depending on whom you heed.

One thing for sure, the big derivatives contract writers are in the country that sponsored the IMF and World Bank, the country that favors floating exchange rates. The legal topsy turvy from the Euro should not be underestimated. I think the whole concept of derivatives to hedge foreign exchange risk, legal risk, and settlement risk in general is proving unworkable. If so, floating exchange rates are as well.

What is being attempted in Europe is really without precedent. The hidden concerns that are driving this process must be quite serious. And they won't go away even if the Euro fails.

Date: Thu May 21 1998 14:15
mozel (@Squirrel) ID#153102:

You resist being organized. Don't they have the same right as you to make up their own minds ?

Better than you, I know government is creeping, creeping, while we're sleeping. And I can't say that most of the people I know are any more inclined to take off the rose colored glasses than the people you mention. Apparent prosperity is a sleeping potion. And people think you are "really out of it" to suggest they need to read law themselves, that government and the law presume they know the law and that the first and primary duty of attorneys is to the government. Everyone is going around taking someone else's word for just about everything.

Things change, Squirrel. Just tend to your own garden. That's all you can do until someone asks you to do more.

Date: Thu May 21 1998 13:59
mozel (@Argent) ID#153102:

You know, if you don't hoe the garden, the weeds take over.

It's true every year. The weeds just never give up. You can move to another field, but it just seems like the weeds follow you everywhere.

When you and Squirrel find FREE LUNCH LAND, send me a postcard.

Date: Thu May 21 1998 13:50
mozel (@Hah Hah @CaF2 @Squirrel) ID#153102:

Paper gold is easier to move around than gold itself." Hmm. Digits in accounts are easier to move around than paper itself. So, why is it so hard for some people to understand gold is moved around as digits in accounts, whether its paper gold or gold ?

Actually at the physical layer I can move $10,000 of gold around easier than $10,000 of paper when you consider $100 is the largest FRN usually available. And that's at today's "depressed price".

"A common means of removing fluoride residue from chemical processes, is to dose the fluoride-containing solution with Calcium ion, which precipitates the fluoride as a very insoluble particle, CaF2."

Where in the hell are those insoluble particles accumulating in my flesh " ? FYI I have seen reports EPA engineers say flouride in water is a pollutant. Just another Hah Hah from those earthly powers, the demi-gods of government.

Squirrel, you are basing your views on those of Ayn Rand, I think, forgetting she was a novelist. I don't think the records of American history bear out her elitist conceptions. Never forget she grew up in Russia and lived in America at a time when conformity was at its height.

I don't mean to minimize her role in liberation history and philosophy, but her inclination was to work things out in absoloute terms and events and people in history are never absoloutely anything. You ought to read about the settlement and establishing of a Constitution in Oregon. You'll feel better about your fellow Americans.

Date: Thu May 21 1998 05:09
mozel (@sharefin) ID#153102:

Network breakdown will mean people will return to living like they did before networks.

Unlike some, I think this is going to get enormous publicity because of its entertainment and suspense value. Sells media. So, people are going to at least have food. So, I think then they will socialize and start to solve problems. Marauders are nothing impossible to deal with. Hell, there was wild Indians hunting people in the woods and raiding settlements when my forefathers set foot on this continent. Stockade.

Electricity is not essential to life. Or to civilized life. Neither are telephones and computers and cars. Y2K will disrupt the lives of the elite. Economists will have a lot of time to speculate on what went wrong. Attorneys will probably just go insane.

Date: Thu May 21 1998 04:45
mozel (@Pranks On Y2K Marauders) ID#153102:

During hard times ( or when they were just feeling wicked ) , people on the coast used to tie a lantern on a Nag and lead it down the coast. Ships mistook the light for that of another vessel and grounded. The natives got the salvage.

Lanterns on the necks of loose horses would similarly confuse light seeking marauders. Perhaps a stock of helium would be wise. Launching flashlights could wear them out running to and fro. I suspect survivalist thinking could become obsessive.

Date: Thu May 21 1998 04:28
mozel (@SWP1) ID#153102:

If Statists like you prevail, you are going to kill us all, but only after we've been imprisoned and tormented. The only plutonium polluter I know of is the USG.

I think flouride causes irrevocable damage to me. And your communique reads like a broken record. Maybe brain damage from flouride.

Date: Thu May 21 1998 04:17
mozel (@sharefin) ID#153102:

The suspense over Y2K occasioned by your posts is starting to wear on my nerves. All I can say is it better not be a disappointment.

I'm not sure what Allen's Verses mean. I may actually seek light on the matter. But, my feverish brain says The Bank will be functioning if nothing else is. It must. It's more important to the government than The People.

It will be surprising if the electric grid is not triaged into operation at some level of functionality. And dialing a phone call local for as long as the power holds is not a huge technical challenge. But, getting the billing right will be a stumbling block, I think. That's where The Bank comes in. Liquidity Injections.

Planes will still fly. So parts can be distributed. If there are no telephone switches working, point to point lines can be used for communications to work on restoring a critical service. There are an incredible amount of resources and resourceful people in America. But, if government gets involved, things may never get repaired. Truly. It's ironic that probably the greatest danger looms from the institution established to protect.

Date: Thu May 21 1998 03:40
mozel (@Liquidity Injections) ID#153102:

Where do these phrase makers come from ? Liquidity Injections is precisely the bon mot to describe plastic surgery for banks.

Indonesia is a mystery. Not just because of the magicians there either. Gold, oil, coal, rice, and who knows what else and the country is broke.

Something is very wrong with this picture.

Perhaps it is just so simple as all the wealth was sucked to the top by taxes and monopolies.

Date: Thu May 21 1998 02:54
mozel (@The Collapse of Debt Paper as Currency) ID#153102:

It won't happen by itself. The Federal Government, Federal Reserve System, and IMF/World Bank can invent more credit indefinitely. The price of it will be higher taxes to pay the usury.

If only one State in this Union pulled out of the New Deal debt currency schemes and repealed the State laws that circumvented the Constitution so the State could collect taxes in greenbacks and spend greenbacks, the collapse of Debt Paper as Currency would be assured. The Supreme Court will not force a State to accept greenback benefits from the Federal Government. It has been clear on that. But, if a State does accept greenback benefits from the Federal Government, it must pay the piper. The Treason to the Constitution is in the State Legislatures. Every individual in America is in the same position as a State insofar as accepting benefits in greenbacks. If you enter an agreement, you pay the piper more lately known as The Bank.

Date: Thu May 21 1998 02:32
mozel (@SWP1) ID#153102:

But, how to get the NON-THEORETICAL FLOURIDE out of the water when government requires me to drink it by Public Law, I do not know how to do.

Any ideas ?

Date: Thu May 21 1998 02:01
mozel (@SWP1) ID#153102:

"Find a way to prevent" ?

Try this. When a man undertakes, he assumes the risk. If what he undertakes harms another or another's property, the wrongdoer must pay for the damages. By these common-law rules, you have liberty under law. You are free, but also responsible for the consequences of your exercise of freedom. It's by Public Law to serve the interests of some that most wrongdoing escapes justice.

But, if just to prevent is your aim, making the whole place a prison with Public Law will prevent most everything except crime.

Date: Thu May 21 1998 01:49
mozel (@Brother John) ID#153102:

Just warming up.

Date: Thu May 21 1998 01:26
mozel (@Squirrel) ID#153102:

Arf ! Arf !

So, you drag out an example of trial and error. That's exactly why people ain't helpless critters. They try; they fail; they learn or don't; but they endure.

The reason so many people seem to be helpless and stupid today is because the whole gol darned System is working night and day to make them in debt, dependant, and illegal. The Bank, the Welfare Department, and the Attorneys thrive on manipulating the human fodder for Baal.

You know, I have hardly any use for clergy and none for Public Law that enforces the private conscience of some onto the people as a whole. Just who do some think they are making it illegal for me to consume whatever pleases me ? Or open my doors for business. Or invent and sell anything. ( All are equal in the Animal Farm, but some are more equal than others. ) The health, military-industrial, and welfare socialists are punishing anyone whose conscience disagrees with theirs just as the Church did in former times. But, it's all the same crap.

Let people be free to live their lives, Squirrel, without fear of the social police and you will be amazed how well they do. Everything in your life which increases your comfort and enjoyment of your days on earth was produced by free people, most of them Americans. For centuries mankind wallowed from pillar to post hardly making any progress toward a better physical life. And in a scant couple of hundred years Americans invented the modern world. There's nothing else to account for this astounding development except freedom for the people you say are helpless and stupid. Well, they aren't. And it's folly to say they are.

Date: Wed May 20 1998 21:45mozel (@Ersel) ID#153104:

Yeah, I bet all the flights to Mexico have been booked for barratry.

Date: Wed May 20 1998 21:36
mozel (@vronsky @Preparing Your Application for International Welfare Assistance) ID#153104:

vronksy I'm sure there is a law.

"It is possible that nearly one percent of the ( Mexican ) population ( of 97 million ) is in danger of dying" because of the nearly 10,000 forest fires in the past three months, said Federico Ortiz, the health ministry's director of international affairs.

Mozel says it is possible that nearly one percent of the Mexican population is in danger of dying in knife fights this weekend.

Date: Wed May 20 1998 19:33
mozel (@JTF) ID#153104:

Explain to me how we are going to be safer if the Chinese buy their satellites from the French, Russians, or Japanese instead of from American companies.

Date: Wed May 20 1998 19:25
mozel (@Squirrel @Post Y2K) ID#153104:

You worry too much Squirrel. People ain't helpless critters, ya know.

Date: Wed May 20 1998 19:17
mozel (@PIGS) ID#153104:

If they could speak, the porcine clan would object to being lumped in with the Commercial Animals. So, I apologize for doing it. I have not seen a pig in a bank or an attorney's office lately, not since I became legally blind.

Date: Wed May 20 1998 19:07
mozel (@Donald) ID#153104:

The contracts under consideration are sometimes tied to obligations which have a term of decades. They can't be rewritten.

The lawyer's solution in a nutshell was "Let A DECREE Go Forth". He is saying "In order to save society the costs of litigation arising from incompetent lawyering, issue a decree to take away rights like those secured in the common-law defenses of impossibility and frustration." This is exactly contrary to government and law existing to secure the rights of individuals.

This is not at all like a gold clause in a bond at dispute in a bankruptcy case. I think legal risk must be added to all the other risks of derivatives. Actually, I think legal risk is an aspect of settlement risk.

Date: Wed May 20 1998 18:49mozel (@SDRer @SAR) ID#153104:Whose attention do you want to get and for what ? @SAR Susupicious Activity Reports. Create them. Generate them. Millions of them a day. All activity should appear suspicious. All activity should be reported. Any person not generating suspicious activity reports on a regular basis is doing something suspicious. Report that, too.

Date: Wed May 20 1998 18:31
mozel (@War Against Disruption) ID#153104:

JTF should run for Congress. That War Against Disruption proposal would catch on like wildfire.

When we are all done with it, we can build a monumennt to having shot our WAD. Maybe a giant marble sphere in the reflecting pool between Lincoln and FDR.

Date: Wed May 20 1998 18:24
mozel (@crazytimes @Lock&Lode) ID#153104:

L&L Quote the broker's statement about $10,000 of coin purchase being reportable. Your broker may report to the IRS every time he has a bowel movement.

A cash transaction over $10,000 is reportable by form 8300. In the communist-socialist-fascist Animal Farm spirit of "it is what we decree it is", a cashier's check or certified check is defined as cash. And, of course, all of those are "money" according to the Uniform Commercial Code promulgated by the Commercial Animals, known in the vernacular as Pigs.

Date: Wed May 20 1998 17:23
mozel (@Stop Selling) ID#153104:

American Communications satellites to China. Then the Japanese and Russian and French will not sell the Chinese satellites and that will make us safer.

Date: Wed May 20 1998 14:22
mozel (@SDRer @Donald) ID#153102:

Well, I have thought a little about the legal implications of the Euro as explicated by the New York lawyer on the web page you pointed to.

His essay reminded me of something I posted about a decision of the Japanese Supreme Court which transferred liability arbitrarily for the good of society or words to that effect. The no-law rule of the collective.

This debt system has brought and will bring untold suffering to people. People would be wise to examine their agreements now.

Date: Wed May 20 1998 01:22
mozel (@Squirrel) ID#153102:

That looks like a lot of heavy reading. I think I'll just wait for the movie. Should be released before very long now.

Date: Wed May 20 1998 01:12
mozel (@Tolerant1 Wonder if the Chinese did it to the sat as a test & demo ?) ID#153102:

Date: Tue May 19 1998 23:27
mozel (@SDRer) ID#153102:

Well, I endured the agony of reading that site. I thank God I didn't write it. What a mess. 

Date: Tue May 19 1998 22:43mozel (@Silverbaron) ID#153102:

What ? No Buyers for US Debt ? Impossible. World Bank to the rescue.

Then, with US Bionds as collateral The Bank can make loans to Mexico, Argentina, and Brazil so they can buy some US Debt. To collateralize.

This is really an uninspired though workable example. Wall Street whizzes can do much better financial packaging than I can, but you get the idea, I hope. As long as taxes keep coming in to pay the interest to the userers, they can keep inventing debt. At least that's how it looks to me.

Date: Tue May 19 1998 22:23
mozel (@Silverbaron) ID#153102:

Short this or that related to banks and currency. These are all good ideas if you can figure out how to quantify the settlement risk. I mean what good does it do to make a killing on paper if the House that owes is defunct ? Like holding derivatives winnings against a bank in Indonesia.

Date: Tue May 19 1998 21:35
mozel (@Squirrel) ID#153102:

Time-Warner, etc. are going to make a killing off this Y2K story. It's entertainment by golly and between now and Y2K they are going to make a buck on it. Government jaws are going to get sore from repeating No Problem.

Date: Tue May 19 1998 21:15
mozel (@Donald @What's Happening @Pepto For Goldbugs) ID#153102:

Two events are now closing on the "banking system". The first is elimination of bank liquidity from losses on derivatives contracts. The second is elimination of bank liquidity from cash withdrawals by Y2K nervous depositors. Either event would be enough alone to render the banking system illiquid. Together they are Banking Armageddon.

Now as the United States government is legally obligated to guarantee the liquidity of this farce called a banking system we are in for scenes from the asylum. The ultimate guarantor of the banking system is the taxpayer. New Debt will be created to give New Liquidity to the banking system and New Taxation will be levied to pay the New Interest on the New Debt. It is either that or Sovereign Default. These are the kind of choices that cause changes in government. People may begin asking in a big way if the federal government was established for the benefit of parasitic usurers in banks and their cohorts, the attorneys.

Somewhere in all this the $US must devalue.

Goldbugs should take heart that though they have had notional losses, they still hold the gold and it is not, nor ever will be, in default.

Date: Tue May 19 1998 19:27
mozel (@Y2K The National Security) ID#153102:

If we don't know what weapons systems will be working, they don't either.

If DOD just keeps saying No Problem, the bluff is as good as having everything up and running. It's Mutual Assured Uncertainty.

Date: Tue May 19 1998 19:21
mozel (@Y2K The Millenium) ID#153102:

Funny how five years ago everyone thought it would be the religious who would run to the hills as Y2K approacheth. Turns out it's the godless geeks that are carriers of this millenium's apocalyptic vision. How long will it be before Y2K the movie makes its appearance ? When that happens, people will believe in it. Cause they saw it at the movies.

At the rate things are going, by the time it gets here most everyone will have a stock of food.

I thought the most rational post about Y2K was the one Allen put up showing that the cash withdrawals from the banking system would destroy it. I think they won't. Just make it more bankrupt. That will mean yet another Reorganization in Bankruptcy. Perhaps there should be focus on having The Bank disappear in the reorganization.

I think these foreign terrorist scenarios are the products of imaginations that are seriously infected with propaganda. How are they gonna get here if the planes aren't flying ? The unassimilated to the welfare state, independent minded American citizen is who the government officials are talking about when they say "terrorist."

The chance of a Mexican migrant invasion seems remote to me, too. They only come across the border for work. If there is no work here, they have no reason to leave the village. I think the real threat is from the Eh speakers invading in search of warmth when the Hydos go on the fritz again.

Date: Tue May 19 1998 15:06
mozel (@On The Other Hand) ID#153102:

Some places overseas will have national security concerns that are valid if US military machines can't be relied on because of Y2K.

Date: Tue May 19 1998 14:56
mozel (@Y2K National Security Concerns) ID#153102:

If our high tech stuff doesn't work, why would anybody else's ?

Where is the great danger going to come from ? Mexico ?

Date: Tue May 19 1998 13:39
mozel (@The Wave of Big Mergers) ID#153102:

Fruit of Usury. Inevitable. Ten for Eleven silently working its evil magic while you wake, while you sleep. Read Gianni's posts. Modern Mergers parallel the mergers which created the latifundi, giant plantations of slaves, of Roman times.

Date: Tue May 19 1998 13:18
mozel (@aztec @Frustrated @Alberich) ID#153102:

aztec I want to know what gold producers are sending gold to be minted into dinars to buy goods and services in Islamic countries. When we hear that, we will know gold is moving into circulation as money in Islam.

Clinton. They are afraid of him.

Frustrated Thanks for the thanks.

Alberich I think you need to represent the two dates in 1's and 0's. Then you need to know if that will be expressed left right or reversed in the chip. So you need to represent it both ways if there is no reliable documentation on the machine representation mode. Then you need to look at those 1's and 0's and deduce what logical operation ( s ) the programmer would or could perform to compare changes in one machine register to the contents of another. In low level code there is no statement for less than or greater than. Probably an OR operations code was used. Analyzing at this level enables a more definite prediction of what will happen.

But, I hazard it will verify what you have deduced by your higher level analysis. And I think it means no embedded chip can be trusted.

Date: Tue May 19 1998 01:46
mozel (@aztec) ID#153102:

Systems can't establish justice. Especially systems based on usury. I must have misunderstood your other post. Sorry for wasting bandwidth.

Date: Tue May 19 1998 01:38
mozel (@SDRer) ID#153102:

"The bad news is--they all look very threatening..." I know the feeling.

Could/Would you tell me what this means? About a small town in US...

Legal Status: General Law Town

Incorporated: 8/5/1924

It means the government of the town is a corporation. It's governing by administrative law enacted by the State legislature. The snares of admission in administrative law are a class unto themselves. Just getting started there. But, I know asking permission can waive a right. For the meaning of General Law Town you have to refer to the Statutes of the State. Generally, a regulation might be enacted at the State legislature which would mandate the promulgation of an ordinance by cities, but leave the promulgation of an ordinance based on the State optional for Towns. As a side note, there were big changes in the decade of the twenties in government and law which I have not figured out yet. But, I believe there was a fiscal crisis and maybe even government bankruptcy that preceded the Depression.

Is there some handbook, "How to be a Citizen not a Serf"? Start at the Behold! site. They also say you cannot have a bank account, but until I saw the connection with the agreement with The Bank, I did not understand why. Now I do.

Date: Tue May 19 1998 01:10
mozel (@aztec @Thomas) ID#153102:

aztec The only people allowed to profit from drugs are those authorized to do so by Washington DC. Drug Lords is a silly propaganda phrase. Why don't they call them pharmacists ? It's just spin. The Bank wants interest payments from peasants from those Mexican Banks.

Thomas I suppose if I gave you a slip of paper that said I.O.U that had no proper legal form or foundation, that would be just paper. But if it is issued by a government, it has that government's gunpowder backing it. Until the government runs out of gunpowder anyway. Which you might say is what happended in Weimar and in Yeltsin's Russia.

Date: Tue May 19 1998 00:54
mozel (@Thomas) ID#153102:

Well, the reichsmark and ruble were not just paper. They were gunpowder backed. Up until November of 1923 the German Courts enforced ( read gunpowder ) tender by the depreciating reichsmark. This ruined all lenders. Bond holders. Mortgage holders. Pensioners. They were all paid off for less than the current price of an egg.

I daresay Russian Courts also enforced tender by Ruble. They must. It is their legal duty to enforce legal tender.

Date: Tue May 19 1998 00:44
mozel (@auric ) ID#153102:

Unless you are the "retail outlet", you don't file reports on Form 8300. The language has definitely intimidated more people than merely you. You ain't heard nothin' yet. Wait til they are talking death penalty. Do you really think the userers will not go to that extreme if they think they must to keep their payments coming ? All by your agreement with The Bank ruled on outside the Constitution.

Date: Tue May 19 1998 00:30
mozel (@Thomas) ID#153102:

I am unable to identify any "just paper" tender. All fiat paper issued by governments is gunpowder backed.

The purpose of the 16th Amendment was to give those lenders who joined the Federal Reserve System which was enacted into law in the same year precisely that confidence that the USG could tax enough to feed the ravening maw of usury.

As I think through the snares they are laying now, I see that this agreement with The Bank provides the ultimate assurance to the usurers that the USG can collect to pay them. Because it takes the taxpayer out from under the protection of the Constitution. The prosecutor will point out to the judge in chambers the existence of your agreement with The Bank. The judge will take silent judicial notice. The defendant in a tax case will never understand why his case went down in flames and why the Constitution was not relevant. Everyone will be intimidated. Only if you are not one of theirs, will they leave you alone.

It is all this simple. They, the userers, the government that is in debt to them, and the people in government, live on your payments. The $US lives on your payments.

Mozel I
Mozel II
Mozel III
Mozel IV

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